13th of May 2014

Where To Start If You’re Lost With Women, Part 7: Where To Meet Women & How To Talk To Them

We’ve covered quite a bit so far. The highlights:

1. The right mindset at the beginning is key (willing to try, ok with failures, and cautiously optimistic about long run success). Part 1 is here.

2. Female choice is the foundational principle of mating: (women choose, men pursue). Part 2 is here.

3. Women are attracted to many different traits in men, and men can cultivate those traits in themselves to become more attractive (effectiveness is the key principle underlying all these traits)Part 3 is here.

4. Female attraction is emotional and unconscious, but it’s biologically rational and adaptive for her and her offspring (female sexual preferences do make biological sense for them). Part 4 is here.

5. The fifth step is all about the actions you can take to be more attractive to women today, i.e., developing and displaying the traits women find attractive. Those are covered in Part 5.

6. You should understand what’s possible and what you want in a relationship before you go out looking for women (the best type of relationship for you is the one that meets your current needs). Part 6 is here.


This piece covers the basics of where you can meet women, and how to talk to them when you meet them.

The reality is, each of these two topics could be tens of thousands of words each. Even if we did them as separate pieces, we could still only barely cover the basics. This piece is only the beginning of the vast amount of material we will do that addresses these issues.

The reason we are putting these together is because we want to emphasize an approach to meeting and talking to women that is going to be new to many guys. The basic idea is not to go out and pick-up strange women with the hope of having sex, but instead arrange your life so that you naturally meet women with similar interests and goals as you, and then develop romantic relationships with them out of social relationships.


Where To Meet Women

Most popular media (and PUA’s and even advice from friends) focuses on what to do in order to meet women in bars and clubs. That’s even what I talk about in most of my books. I’m going to tell you something that you probably aren’t expecting, especially from Tucker Max:

Bars and clubs are some of the worst places for (most) guys to find and meet new girls they don’t know.

Think about it logically; you go to a loud, dark place, put behavior altering substances in your body, approach and initiate conversation with a girl you don’t know and have no information about, all with the intent of trying to quickly gain her trust so you can have sex with her?

If you presented this situation to an evolutionary biologist, they would laugh at you and wonder what this guy did to you that you’d torture him by putting such an unnatural and difficult obstacle in front of him. Why would they laugh at you? Because there are two facts that underlie all human mating behavior that this scenario flies in the face of:

A woman’s deepest unconscious biological fear is that men will rape or kill them. A man’s deepest unconscious biological fear is that a woman will sexually humiliate him.

The reasons for this are the same as the reasons why attraction is not a choice and why men are the pursuers and women the choosers: because we evolved this way. Again, the full explanation is long and involved, but basically, women had to worry about sexual violence so they have evolved to be wary of unknown men met in anonymous situations. Men have evolved to worry about their ability to get women to sleep with them, and since their social status and social rank have been so important to that success, sexual humiliation was a deeply problematic issue for our male ancestors.

So basically, meeting strange women in bars exacerbates her worst fears, and puts in you a position to experience your worst fears. The idea that bars and clubs are good places to meet and approach strange women goes against everything in human biology. Why do you think we need to get go drunk or fucked up on drugs at those places?

The reality is, guys should pretty much never put themselves in a situation where they are approaching strange women with no obvious reason. There are virtually no cultures or social groups in history that expected their young people to meet and pair up by throwing them into random social groups and let them sort it out themselves. This is not realistic, sensible, natural, or a culturally successful approach to human mating.

The idea that guys should walk into a bar and confidently initiate contact and then seduce a woman based on a short term conversation is a toxic cultural myth that robs guys of self-confidence and that holds them up to an unrealistic standard that they have to become a super-extraverted narcissist in order to ‘score with women’.

And this is TUCKER MAX SAYING THIS!! My god, I am GOOD at that, and I’m telling you its really hard and for the most part, a really stupid way to meet women. This is true even if you are just looking for short term relationships.

The reality is, very few men in history have ever had the narcissist-level of confidence needed to approach strange women in crowded places full of strange men. In prehistory, doing that would have usually resulted in jealous rages, shocking violence, and early death. Of course you hate ‘cold approaches’. Trust your instincts.

[As a side note, do you know why so many pick-up artists and other scammers teach that you to do this? Lots of reasons, but one of the most enduring is that they are playing on your anxieties and insecurities to get you to buy their ridiculous $5000 courses, that’s why. It’s not fundamentally different than how any modern advertising works; convince you that you’re inadequate, then sell you their solution (even though what they sell you doesn’t really work, as most people find out. We’ll cover this later on in the blog as well).]

So, when you think about ‘dating’, do NOT imagine trying to approach a beautiful woman you don’t know in a crowded bar full of strangers. Instead, think about putting yourself in social groups, that include women, where you do things you already enjoy.

Doing this solves all the problems that most guys have with meeting girls. For example, imagine you meet a girl while doing some community event, like volunteering at a park clean-up. Let’s examine the interaction:

1. No fear for her: The girl automatically feels safer around you, since you aren’t a stranger approaching her in a dark bar, you are a guy who is part of group that she’s a part of. You have a legit reason to talk to her, and things to talk about. This makes her feel much safer around you, because you no longer code as a stranger to her.

2. No risk of humiliation for you: You don’t have to worry about her rejecting you, because your initial interactions are in the context of a volunteering event. You can interact with her in a risk-free way and get much more feedback on her attraction level before you actually move towards a romantic relationship.

3. Better attraction displays for you: She can see the attractive parts of you far easier in this setting than in a crowded bar full of other guys vying for her attention. Even in a simple volunteering task, you can show her you care about something she cares about, are intelligent, socially conscious, can lead people, can talk to people, etc, etc. This gives you the chance to shine in many ways, all in a completely normal context.

If you aren’t sure what types of activities I mean, here are a few that I know work really well to meet women:

1. Crossfit: The great thing about crossfit is that it not only gets you in great shape, it does it in a group of people that are pretty much all cool, supportive and fun. Plus, I think the national average at crossfit gyms is like 60% women. And those women are almost always in shape, attractive, and cool (I actually met my current girlfriend through crossfit).

2. Volunteering: Volunteering for charities or social causes you like is one of the best ways possible to meet women. I cannot tell you how many women I used to meet by volunteering for no kill animal shelters. I live in Austin now, and the big no kill shelter here, Austin Pets Alive, is about 80% female volunteers. And lots of them are hot. You get to help dogs and meet hot girls–are you kidding? Why do more guys not do this? There is a running joke at APA that they have no single male volunteers, because even if they start off single, they get taken fast.

3. Improv lessons: I’ve never done this, but I know a ton of guys who have and all of them love it. Not only do you learn how to be much better in conversation and funny off the cuff, but classes are usually about 70% girls, and the entire point is that you interact with them and talk to them. And usually you do it at night, and then go out for drinks afterward.

4. Intramural co-ed sports leagues: These are always fun. Anytime you can play a sport with a woman, especially if you’re even halfway decent at it, is super fun and a great way to meet lots of women.

5. Salsa/dance lessons: Don’t do this unless you like dancing, or really want to learn, but if you do, then it’s a great way to meet lots of women with virtually no male competition.

6. Online dating: This will be its own series of pieces so I won’t spend any time on it here, but trust me, online dating is the greatest thing to ever happen to guys (and girls). We’ll walk you through exactly how to use it later on.

Note that I am not advocating you do any of these specific things. They’re just examples of literally hundreds of things you could do other than awkwardly standing around in a bar, trying to muster up the courage to talk to a girl. The point is to find pretty much any social activity that is something you enjoy and puts you around other people, especially women, who enjoy them as well.

In each of these situations, you’re doing something fun or enjoyable with women you don’t know yet. In the natural process of these activities, you build a relationship with them, or you have a reason to talk to them and something to talk about. This automatically changes the entire interaction. You are no longer a stranger, and it’s no longer a cold approach. Now it’s not only easy, but expected for you to start conversations with women in these situations.

Here’s the best thing about meeting women through shared social activities: Even if you don’t like them as a romantic partner (or vice versa), they have friends. Usually lots of female friends, and usually quite a few of them are single. You can meet them if you play your cards right. Treat all the women you meet through these activities well, hang out with them socially, and all of the sudden you’re going to be meeting a lot more women, because women will always gladly connect good guys to their friends who are looking for them (assuming they’re taken or not interested).

If you do this right, then you no longer think about creating one-off interactions with women in the hope of scoring. The best strategy is to make your dating life an extension of your social life.

This allows you to feel less creepy and more authentic about your interactions with women, you get to practice social and conversational skills in very low risk environments, you can build a good network of friends who hold you in high esteem, you can develop social proof to display to women, and having a good social life is the most powerful anti-depressant and mood stabilizer.

Notice how all of these things are attributes that women find attractive in men? See how it’s all fitting together?

NOTE: Don’t freak out if you still like going to bars to meet women. It can definitely work well for certain guys, and I promise we’ll do several posts about how to do that. I am pretty fucking good at that, after all. But it is NOT part of the basics. My point is simply that most guys should not use that strategy, because it doesn’t work for them. But those of you who are decent at it and do like it, I will lay out several ways for you to get much better at it.


How To Talk To Women

Now maybe you understand why I put these two things together; the vast majority of conversation questions that guys ask me are about cold approaching strange women in bars. But if you’re meeting women while you do shared social activities, or through friends, you don’t have to worry about 80% of the conversation issues that come up with that approach (how to start the conversation, what do you talk about, etc).

We’re going to cover this extensively on the blog and in the book, but here are the basic problems most guys have with conversation:

1. They’re boring/uninteresting: Lots of guys either they have nothing to talk about, or what they have to talk about is utterly uninteresting to most women. Look, if you want to play video games all day that’s cool, but you need to be able to talk about things besides Skyrim and Halo to expect women to find you attractive. You don’t have to be the most interesting man in the world, but you do need to be able to discuss something that interests them as well.

Quick solution: The best thing to do is become interesting, but that takes time. If you really just don’t have anything to say, then ask other people about themselves. If you ask short, interesting questions about people, most of them will do 90% of the talking–all about themselves–and they’ll remember it as ‘a great conversation’ even if they learn nothing about you.

2. They’re selfish/oblivious: These are the guys who won’t shut the fuck up–about themselves. All they do is talk about how great they are, all the things they’ve done, all the people they know, etc. It’s ok to talk about yourself to some degree, but humble bragging is an art that you should perfect, not a club you hit people with. In most conversations with women, you should strive for a 50/50 balance at most, if not 60/40 in her favor. If you don’t do that, you’re monopolizing the conversation, and unless you are REALLY interesting and compelling, the girl will be bored.

Quick solution: Pay attention to the girl. As soon as she starts looking elsewhere, yawning, looking at her phone, you’ve lost her. Shut the fuck up, ask her a question, and balance the conversation back out.

3. They get nervous: This is a problem a lot of guys have, and it comes from a lot of different places, but the main cause of it is a lack of confidence on conversations. As weird as it may sound to some people, a lot of guys don’t understand basic social cues, or how to make small talk–or even worse, think small talk is useless. Guys, it’s not. It’s actually very important.

The other main problem is that many guys have an deep, unconscious internal belief that they don’t deserve to talk to or “get” with that girl. So they feel like impostors or frauds, and end up either intentionally or accidentally sabotaging themselves.

Quick solution: Get confidence in your conversation skills. How? Well, that’s a long discussion as well, but it boils down to demonstrated performance. The quick hack is a simple one: Go out and have as many conversations as you can with as many people as you can. Anyone, anywhere, in fact, make sure that most of them are NOT with girls you’re trying to pick up. We’ll write extensively about conversation skills soon, but in the end, nothing beats practice. Talk to lots of people, and you’ll get the experience to be confident in any conversation.

If you are decent at conversation, but get nervous talking to hot girls because you don’t believe in yourself, that’s a much harder problem to solve, and it will take some deeper personal work. But here’s a quick hack that can help you today: Stop thinking you’re flirting with the girl. Just make your goal to find out something interesting about her. Don’t even think about what she thinks or if she likes you; focus exclusively on that one goal, and you’ll stop being nervous because you won’t be thinking about how you measure up, you’ll only focus on something external.

4. They don’t care about the women at all: This is a major problem I see with young guys. They see conversation as something they have to get through in order to get to sex. Well, no wonder the girl doesn’t like you dude, you aren’t even pretending to be interested in her as a person.

I will talk about this extensively later on, but here’s something that you probably don’t understand about women: they are just as sexual as you are, and many of them want to hook-up as much as you do. They just don’t want to feel unsafe, or exploited, or embarrassed because of sex. If you can’t even pretend to pay attention to a conversation, if you don’t even show her basic respect prior to sex, then she’s not going to want to fuck you because she assumes you’ll be worse after sex–which makes total sense.

Quick solution: If this is hard for you, then just put yourself into the woman’s perspective — what value are your bringing to her life? How are you making her life better? Remember when I told you that relationships work when they meet the needs of both parties? Think about if you’re meeting her needs (as well as yours).

Or just stop being an awful sociopath. Try that, see if that works.



1. Bars and clubs are some of the worst places for (most) guys to find and meet new girls they don’t know.

2. The most important thing to understand about a new social interaction is that A woman’s deepest unconscious biological fear is that men will rape or kill them, and a man’s deepest unconscious biological fear is that a woman will sexually humiliate him.

3. So, when you think about ‘dating’, do NOT imagine trying to approach a beautiful woman you don’t know in a crowded bar full of strangers.Instead, think about putting yourself in social groups, that include women, where you do things you already enjoy.

4. The best strategy is to make your dating life an extension of your social life. This will be more effective for the vast majority of guys (ones who aren’t super-confident extraverts), it’s more morally comfortable and honest to most guys (who aren’t narcissists and sociopaths), and it has all kinds of side-benefits in broadening your social experience, your social network, and your life-skills, which will make you more attractive to all women.

5. When you’re talking to women, avoid the basic problems like being boring, selfish, nervous or not caring at all about the conversation.



This is an ongoing, developing series, and we are testing how the presentation of this information is resonating with our readers (you). Our goal is to help guys get the relationships they want with women, so please feel free to give us feedback:

Does it make sense? Are you learning from it? What did you not understand? What do you want to know more about? Does this explain mating in way you can relate to?

Any feedback you have, either good or bad, I’d love to hear. Email me here: [email protected]


Where To Start If You’re Lost With Women:

Part 1: Developing The Right Mindset

Part 2: How Mating Works

Part 3: What Women Are Attracted To

Part 4: The “Why” Of Female Attraction

Part 5: How To Be More Attractive To Women 

Part 6: Figuring Out What You Want

Part 7: Where To Find Women 

Part 8: The Road Forward

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