BECOME THE MAN WOMEN WANT
25th of August 2014

How To Figure Out Which Relationship Is Right For You

Introduction:

All relationship types are valid; from one night stands to a forever marriage, and everything in between, and most guys are going to experience all of them through the course of their lives. The question is not what kind of relationship you are allowed to have, it’s which one is right for you at this point in your life?

That’s what this episode is about–explaining all the different types of relationships you can have with women, and helping you understand which ones can be right at what times in your life. By the end of this episode you’ll know everything you need to know about the different types of relationship and you’ll be able to decide what it is that you really want and pursue it.

Podcast:


You can click here (right click, then click save as) to download the episode directly.

Click here to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes.
Click here to subscribe to the podcast on Stitcher.

Video:

[coming soon]

SPONSOR: This episode is sponsored by Bookhacker. They do the reading, so you don’t have to. Check them out on Amazon or Bookhacker.net.

If you want to sponsor the Mating Grounds Podcast, email [email protected].

Key takeaways:

  • A relationship means any kind of interaction with a woman. That can be a short-term hookup/one-night stand, a medium-term relationship like friends with benefits where you regularly hang out and have sex, or a long-term relationship where you’re committed and dating.
  • All of these types of relationship are perfectly valid, you just have to decide which one you want. Each type also has its pros and cons.
  • Short-term relationships tend to be fun, uncommitted, emotionally uncomplicated, and you can have a lot of variety. If you have other shit going on in your life, like if you want to focus on your career or school, you can do that if you stay short-term.
  • You also get to learn what different women are like, what sex is like with different women, what your own preferences are, and so on.
  • On the other hand, the sex can be unsatisfying, because it will be awkward and there will be little emotional connection. It probably won’t be as good as it would be in a medium or long-term relationship.
  • It’s also hard to do – it takes a lot of hard work to go out to a bar, meet a woman, and then a few hours later get her to agree to come home and have sex with you. It happens, but it does not happen nearly as often as you would think.
  • Short-term relationships can be unfulfilling for some guys. If that’s you, then that’s fine. You don’t need to sleep with a lot of girls to call yourself a real man. Likewise, if you want to do it, then go right ahead.
  • Short-term relationships carry higher risk of negative consequences – obviously STDs and unwanted pregnancies, but also crazy girls, or dangerous girls. If you sleep with a lot of girls, you will inevitably come into contact with some dangerous or crazy girls.
  • Things that can happen with unstable girls: false accusations of rape, women trying to get pregnant and then use the baby against you, stalker ex-boyfriends, talking shit about you on social media. Be prepared for these things if you want to do a lot of short-term mating.
  • You also develop a reputation as someone who hooks up a lot, which can be a drawback if you want to start finding long-term partners.
  • Medium-term relationships tend to be primarily sexual, like a booty call, or more like a fuck buddy where you actually hang out sometimes as well.
  • Again, the sex is almost always fun. There’s not as much novelty, but you’re a little more familiar with each other, so the sex will probably be better. You’ll practice more and learn what you both do and don’t like in bed.
  • It requires less time and effort to have sex when you already know the girl than if you went out to try and find someone new.
  • All the other risks that come with new partners like STDs or that she’ll be crazy – all those risks go way down if you know the girl.
  • It’s also likely to be less emotionally complicated than a long-term relationship, and you’re still free to have sex with other women. Again, you get to learn your own preferences – and this time not just sexually, but what other qualities you like in women.
  • Downsides with medium-term relationships: the sex can get boring and it’s still not as emotionally fulfilling as it is in a long-term relationship. Often one side can start to develop feelings for the other, leading to emotional complications (and this can go both ways). This could lead to you getting a reputation for stringing girls along, which is not good.
  • Another downside: if you can have sex with other women, then she can have sex with other guys–and you need to make sure that you’re OK with that.
  • If you’re going through a stage of meeting lots of women, most of them will be medium-term relationships, with some short-term thrown in there when the opportunity arises. That’s how you’ll learn a lot.
  • Medium-term relationships often transition into long-term relationships as well.
  • Long-term relationships, generally speaking, are where you’ll have the best sex, because there’s an emotional connection as well as a physical one. You’ll obviously also learn each other’s preferences in bed.
  • Long-term relationships allow you to be emotionally vulnerable and intimate, to share your experiences and connect with someone, to trust them and so on. Your partner should give you emotional support, advice, and be a friend to you. She should make your life better.
  • You also learn a lot more about how women think and feel, because your girlfriend will open up with you as well.
  • And when you have a girlfriend it’s usually the least time and energy needed in order to have sex, assuming you have a healthy relationship.
  • You also learn how to interact with her friends and relatives, and learn the importance of getting along with her family. This is a real life skill.
  • The big downside of long-term relationships is the emotional risk. She could break your heart. That’s the chance you take by being emotionally open and vulnerable.
  • Usually you won’t be having sex with other people, and so the sex, and the relationship itself, can get stale and boring. It’s possible to get stuck in a rut and waste a lot of time in a relationship because it’s easy.
  • If you’re choosing your goals, whether they be short, medium or long-term relationships, don’t try and force those choices on women who want different things. Find women who want the same thing as you, and everyone will be much happier. There’s plenty of women out there.

Links from this episode

Podcast Audio Transcription:

Tucker:
Alright. So, in this episode of The Mating Grounds Podcast, we are going to go over how to figure out what it is you want from women, right? I think in the next episode we’re going to do how to pick women. So, now, we’ve spent a lot of time telling you how to understand women and how to get better so you’re more attractive to them, but I think a lot of guys don’t understand all the possible relationships or all the possible options, because a lot of guys – not all guys, by any stretch – but a lot of guys basically get nothing and so they want anything. We’ll start talking to guys and they’ll say, “Oh, how do I X? How do I get better at conversation? How do I get more attractive to girls? How do I…whatever?” And we’ll say, “Well, what do you want? What are your goals?” And they kind of look at us like we’re speaking French. “I don’t know.” They don’t even understand there are different possible goals. If you understand what your goals are, then you can work towards those goals instead of just blindly groping in the dark for pussy. That’s not how it works.

Nils:
I think they need to understand that they can have goals.

Tucker:
That’s actually…Right. We have to be even more fundamental. You can have different relationship goals, all of which are valid. And they can change over time, as well. So, let’s talk about, what are the basic types of relationships? First off, when we say relationship, I want to make this very clear. When we say relationship, we mean any sort of interaction with a woman.

Nils:
Mutual interaction.

Tucker:
Yes. Obviously. Crime is not considered a relationship. Crime is considered an act.

Nils:
Well, harassing the girl to try and get her to engage you is not a relationship, though it is an interaction, technically.

Tucker:
Well, okay. You’re right. Crime are not relationships, guys. So, don’t commit crimes.

Geoff:
Also, having a sexual fantasy about a woman when she’s not aware that you exist. It might be very sexually fulfilling to you, but it’s not a relationship and…yeah. So, we’re talking about mutual…

Nils:
Thinking you were meant to be together.

Tucker:
Unless she thinks so, too.

Geoff:
Yeah. Mutual and consensual interaction.

Tucker:
Yes. Okay, so there are, essentially…when we say relationship, we mean anything from I meet a girl in a bar and she’s into me and she blows me in the bathroom and then we never talk to each other again – that is a form of relationship – all the way through to I met this girl and we started dating right away and now we’re married and we have four kids. That’s also a relationship, okay? So, when we say relationship, don’t think that we are telling you you have to have a certain type of relationship. We’re not. We’re talking about all types of relationships, okay? From the shortest to the longest, from just physical to very emotional, and everything in between. So, what are the possible types of relationships? And we’re talking mainly romantic relationships. So, basically, there are three general types. There are short-term relationships, where courtship period tends to be relatively short – five minutes to, let’s say, five hours, vaguely speaking – and it’s essentially centered on one encounter or a few short encounters and it culminates into some sort of sexual activity, and then after the sexual activity’s over, generally, the relationships are over. So, like a one-night stand or a hookup or something like that is a short-term relationship. That can be your goal. Also, there are medium-term relationships. Those can be a hookup where you hookup with a girl for a week or so, right? You’re not really dating. Like a fuck buddy or a booty call or whatever you would call it, where it’s repeated sexual encounters with a girl. Now, if they stay primarily physical, it’s a little bit different than if you’re sort of casually seeing them or not, but they’re all medium-term. So, if you’re seeing her from, let’s say, three days up to about three months, whether it’s just physical or it’s quasi-dating or she hangs out as well as sleeps with you or whatever—

Nils:
Friends with benefits.

Tucker:
—friends with benefits. These all kind of fit into medium-term. The basic defining part, the difference between medium- and short-term is you’re seeing her over and over and not just one time.

Nils:
And you sort of have a sense that this is not for permanent. Like, “We’re not going to get married. We’re not going to get engaged. We’re probably not.”

Tucker:
Probably. Right. And then the other type, the third type, are longer-term relationships. That’s, generally, about three months or more and usually, what differentiates a long-term relationship from anything else is a commitment to that person. It doesn’t necessarily have to be exclusive – like, you don’t have to be sexually exclusive, although that’s usually what defines commitment – but it’s something where you’re seeing someone on a regular basis. You have a defined relationship, usually involving some level of commitment, and that can obviously include boyfriend/girlfriend, engaged, married, or just kind of seriously dating, but not quite committed yet. That generally falls into that category.

Nils:
And there’s stronger feelings involved.

Tucker:
Right. Someone you usually like a lot more or you’re into, you want to spend more time with, usually. Although not always, I guess. Alright, so let’s talk about short-term relationships. Should we talk about how to figure out? Let’s talk about what these are and then we can talk about how guys can figure out what it is they want, because a lot of guys don’t know what they want, so you need to figure it out. That will help you make decisions about what women to pursue and how to pursue them. So, what are the good things about short-term relationships? Well, sex. Usually pretty fun, right? What else? They tend to be emotionally uncomplicated, usually. Not always. They tend to require no long-term sacrifice or responsibility, right? You can kind of get in and get out, literally. You can have a lot of them in a short period of time, if you’re good and you’re attractive to women. A lot of women want to partner up with you. You can have a lot of variety.

Nils:
They allow you to focus on your other goals with the other things that are going on in your life.

Tucker:
Right. If you stay short-term, you can focus on your career, you can focus on school. That sort of stuff. You can learn a lot about lots of different women. You can practice courtship dating. If you want to meet a ton of women and have fun with a ton of women, the shorter-term relationships kind of enable that. You get a lot of experiences, sexual or non-sexual. Some are not always positive, but you get a lot of experiences, right? Are there any other good things about short-term relationships?

Geoff:
I think the learning function. Getting experience and experiencing a variety of women in different situations and different kinds of sex is crucial, and that’s why young men tend to have more short-term relationships. Because they’re kind of learning, right? You learn to talk and you learn to walk and you learn how to have sexual relationships. Across cultures all around the world, adolescents and young men tend to have a sequence of short-term relationships kind of to help them calibrate. Who can I get? What is sex like with different women? What are women like? And that’s kind of a crucial developmental stage. If you don’t go through that, you might marry somebody when you’re a virgin and maybe you’ll have a super happy marriage and six kids, but you’ll still be left wondering what else is out there. Is this really the best person for me? If you don’t have some short-term relationships, then you don’t know what the comparisons and possibilities are.

Nils:
Yeah. And even on the physical/sexual side, too. Not even is this person best for me at an emotional level. It’s like, what else feels good?

Tucker:
Sometimes, it’s very hard to – how do you know what foods you like? You try a lot of different foods and you’re like, “Oh, I like pizza. I don’t like burgers.” Whatever. It’s not totally different with women. And I don’t mean, “Oh, I like black girls. I don’t like Asian girls.” I mean types of people more than…some people can fetishize certain races or looks or heights or whatever. I mean more like, “Oh, I like girls who are really sweet,” or, “I like girls who are really smart,” or, “I like girls who are really fun,” or something like that. Those sorts of interactions.

Nils:
And I think Geoff’s point about the learning aspect of this is really interesting. If you think about language – when you’re young, you don’t sit there watching other people talk and then your first word is a complete sentence. You know? You babble and then you string a couple words together, and then you start to actually exchange thoughts and ideas with somebody who’s better at language. That’s exactly what’s going on on the short-term side.

Tucker:
That doesn’t only have to happen in short-term mating. Medium-term mating, you can learn a lot from, too, which we’ll talk about in a second. Let’s talk about the bad things about short-term mating, ‘cause everything has a plus and a minus. Listen. Everything in life is a trade-off. That’s one of the things we’re going to tell you, is there’s no such thing as good and bad. There’s only what’s right for you given your goals at that time in your life, alright? So, what’s the bad things about short-term mating? Sex is great, but sex with strangers – and short-term mating tends to be with strangers, right?

Nils:
High-risk, potentially.

Tucker:
I was going to say it’s unsatisfying. Of the types of sex, it’s the most unsatisfying, and here’s why. Because it tends to be awkward whenever you’re with someone you don’t have physical chemistry with. Physical chemistry develops, usually, over time, although it can develop very quickly with some people. It usually doesn’t. I’ve done it with a lot of women. I’m telling you, it usually doesn’t. It usually takes time.

Nils:
I think the problem with that, though, was that…if we’re looking at the broad scope of who we’re trying to reach here, for most of them, any sex, even if it’s awkward, is better than no sex. And you’re comparing it against a world of your own experience, right?

Tucker:
Right. I’m not telling guys not to have short-term relationships. What I’m telling them is what they’re going to learn by having this, is that when you have sex with just one-night stands or short-term hookups, it’s almost never… all things being equal, it’s never as good as sex with girls that you know well and have an emotional connection with and have some relationship with. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have it. Guys, when I say it’s not as good, don’t take that as me wagging my finger at you and telling you not to do it. We’re explaining these things to you so you can understand them and then make your own decisions in your own life, okay?

Geoff:
Yeah. The point here is the short-term mating can be great, but medium-term mating can be even more awesome.

Tucker:
Yeah. We’re talking about just the actual act of sex. The act of sex is great. Sex itself is pretty much always great. Even the bad sex is usually really good, okay? Most of the bad sex you’re going to have is going to be with one-night stand hookups, and most of the good sex you’re going to have are going to be with women that you have a connection with and that you’ve had sex with more than a few times. Not always, but most of it.

Nils:
Totally.

Geoff:
Yeah. And there’s a really good psychological reason for this, that women typically find it easier to get aroused and relaxed and have orgasms with guys they’ve been with at least a few times. So, if you’re having a short-term hookup, most women won’t orgasm. Some will, but typically, it takes a few times before a woman really gets to know and trust you and feel relaxed with you, enough to really enjoy herself. So, if you’re the kind of guy who doesn’t care at all about a woman having fun with you, like Tucker, then it doesn’t matter. But if you’re the kind of guy who likes to see women come and you get a charge out of that and that feels good to you, then a series of short-term hookups is not going to be as satisfying as, perhaps, medium-term relationships.

Tucker:
Or if you care about both of you, you and her. It doesn’t have to be “I just care about her” or “I just care about me.” You can care about both of you. That’s also an option.

Geoff:
But it depends a lot on the age of the women. Young women take longer to warm up to a guy, but if you’re talking about women in their thirties, a lot of them are very relaxed and comfortable, even for one-night stands and they can just thoroughly enjoy it. It depends a lot on your age. Experienced women find it easier to relax faster.

Tucker:
Right. They know their bodies better and they have less social hang-ups and other sorts of things. They’re just far more experienced, just like more experienced guys are better at sex. So, what are some other drawbacks? It’s not easy to develop the skills to have lots of short-term relationships. To be good at picking up lots of women, you’re going to a bar, meeting a woman, and getting her to agree to come home and have sex with you in under five, six, seven hours is not an easy thing to do. I understand that there’s this idea that everyone’s going out and hooking up all the time. That’s not true. I have done this my whole life. I have worked in bars. I have lived in that situation my whole life. I’m telling you, most people go home alone most nights. It is not common. It happens, no doubt, but when I say it happens a lot, what would you say – so, you’ve spent god knows how much time either working or in bars just like I have. On a given night, how many people would you say…how many girls, actually, pair up? ‘Cause basically, every guy will pair up if he gets the opportunity, right? How many couples would you say, that didn’t come together, go home together to hook up? What percentage?

Nils:
Probably about 10%.

Tucker:
Yeah. I was going to say between 20% and 5%, depending on the night and the place.

Nils:
If there are 100 women in the bar, it’s obvious to see…

Tucker:
…who’s looking. Who’s trolling for—

Nils:
There’s always about ten to twelve that you can see—

Tucker:
There’ll be five that you know, five or ten that are sort of maybe, maybe not, depending on the guys, and then another ten that are like, well, only if a fucking rockstar is here. Best case scenario, you’re usually looking at only about 25% of the women are even really…I don’t want to say open for business, but available for short-term mating.

Nils:
Sure. And a part of that is because in that context, most of those girls are with other girls. So, it’s much harder to sort of separate that out.

Geoff:
But it’s also that women just are not, on average, as interested in short-term mating as men are, and you can see the difference in straight bars vs. gay bars. Typically, if there’s 100 gay guys in a gay bar, they’ll mostly all pretty much end up finding somebody, because they all want the same thing.

Nils:
The only situation where that number is different is at hotel bars and business hotels.

Tucker:
Okay, right. Places where women are…vacationing, like Cancun. I worked in Cancun. I would say at least a third to a half of the girls every night. But they came there thinking this is vacation. It’s different.

Nils:
Business hotels, too. It’s the same thing. Most women who are on business are not going to get a table in the back by themselves to have dinner. It just looks weird. They’ll sit at the bar and then those numbers go way up. But now you’re talking 30-35 year-old women. We’re not talking 22…

Geoff:
And she’s made a choice to go to the bar rather than get room service.

Nils:
She sat at one end. She sat at the corner. They’re all the same that way.

Tucker:
Right. Exactly. Not all women do that. The women who do that are looking for a certain thing.

Nils:
Yeah. That’s how they do it.

Tucker:
Exactly. But generally speaking, it’s not easy to develop the skills. Look, you can always fall into things. It’s not easy to be good at this. You can do it, though. We’re going to teach you how to do it.

Nils:
So, it takes a lot of energy and a lot of time.

Tucker:
Yes. Yes. But it’s doable, though. I just want to say, it’s not as easy as some guys think.

Geoff:
Well, if the ratio of mating effort that you have to do, the time and energy that you invest in it, compared to the amount of sex that you get is actually pretty low in short-term mating.

Tucker:
Especially at the beginning.

Geoff:
Yeah.

Tucker:
Then, once you get good and you have a good mindset, then it becomes this sort of cycle….like, for me, the amount of effort to return was really bad for me from, maybe, twenty to about twenty-four, twenty-five. But then, once I kind of got my feet under me and I really knew what I was doing and I had made the mindset shift to going out to have fun instead of going out for sex, then my ROI went way up. Then, from about twenty-four to thirty plus was fun. So, short-term relationships can also be unfulfilling for some guys. Here’s the thing, guys. There is definitely a cultural meme or trope that guys don’t care about emotion with sex, and if that’s the case for you, that’s fine, and I know it was for me for a period of my life, or at least when I was younger. But for a lot of guys, connecting emotion and sex is important, which is fine. That doesn’t make you a pussy. It doesn’t make you a weirdo. In fact, that’s actually – if you look at the studies, and there are a lot of them, you’re in the majority. It’s just a silent majority, okay? So, guys, if you have a couple of short-term relationships and they’re unfulfilling, that’s normal. That’s okay. Right? But that is a drawback, is that they’re not…having a lot of sex with a lot of different women doesn’t mean you’re not going to be lonely, is basically the takeaway. So, if that’s your thing, understand you want to look at different types of relationships, alright?

Geoff:
Also, we’re not saying you have to have a lot of sex with a lot of different women to be a real man.

Tucker:
Of course not. We went over that in another podcast. I hope at this point, you guys understand that you can be a Mormon and marry one woman and that’s the only woman you’ve had sex with and be a badass man and you can fuck a thousand women and still be a fucking douche, or vice versa. Okay? Obviously, there’s a higher risk of negative sexual consequences: STDs, crazy girls…Look, here’s the thing. If your goal is, “I’m going to fuck a hundred women before I’m thirty” or something, some percentage of those girls are going to be borderline bipolar, crazy. You can’t have sex with lots and lots of women without coming across the ones who are having lots of sex because they have emotional issues. By no means is that the majority of women even having short-term relationships, but some percentage of them are and you will come across them. Some of them have a lot of diseases, so you need to wear condoms and hope they don’t break and hope you don’t have any problems. You also need to be aware that some girls are – just like some guys are dangerous, some women are dangerous. You are more likely to meet them if you are having sex with dozens or hundreds of women as opposed to less. Just percentage-wise, statistically.

Geoff:
Yeah. Let’s break this down a little bit. If you’re doing mostly short-term mating, a high proportion of the women you have short-term mating with are the women who have a lot of male partners in their lives. So, you’re kind of over-sampling from rather promiscuous women. Rather promiscuous women, that tends to correlate with things like borderline personality disorder and bipolar and other—

Tucker:
We talked about this with Dr. Berlin. Heather Berlin talked about this.

Geoff:
Right. And that also means if you focus mostly on short-term mating, you’re getting a biased sample of what women are like, right? It’s very easy to get the impression that, “Oh, my god, women are really crazy!” Because you’re sampling the crazy ones because they’re the ones who are more likely to do short-term mating. And I’m not saying that all women who do a lot of short-term mating are crazy.

Tucker:
No. In fact, they aren’t.

Geoff:
Some of them are the most emotionally healthy women I’ve met. And Tucker and I will disagree on this, but—

Tucker:
No. I agree. I think we disagree about who’s emotionally healthy and what percentage, but the general concept that very emotionally healthy women tend to be sex positive and can have short-term relationships, I don’t think we disagree in principle. We don’t.

Geoff:
So, the main point is depending on the type of relationships you have experience with, you’ll get a different sample of women and you’ll get a different impression of what women are like. And that is one reason I think it’s actually quite useful to have a kind of balance among short, medium and long-term relationships. But we can get into that later.

Tucker:
Right. Exactly.

Nils:
Just know that you’re going to end up on the crazy train at some point if you go way overboard on that short-term mating side. Just be prepared that you’re going to have to jump at some point.

Tucker:
Guys, I’m the best example of this. Go read my books. I’ve hooked up with hundreds or thousands of women. I don’t know. But I don’t write about most of them because most of them are great girls. We had a great time. You know, we hooked up for two weeks or whatever, or a few days, or once, and it was no problem. But some of them are fucking disasters, right? And it’s kind of funny if you’re not involved in it, right? But each one of my books has at least one or two stories about girls I hooked up with – and again, I don’t want to put all the blame on them. I had my issues at the time, too, so that road goes both ways. It is not a one-way street, okay?

Geoff:
So, let’s be specific about what kinds of shit can happen if you hook up with a dangerously unstable woman. I think a lot of guys can’t anticipate what, exactly, can happen.

Tucker:
Okay. So, you can have girls that will – especially if you’re rich or famous – that will try and get pregnant and use that baby as a weapon against you. You will have women who have deep-seated emotional issues and will play those out in the context of your relationship. So, like…I’m trying to think of some examples. There’s so many.

Nils:
Well, here. First, translate that into plain English.

Tucker:
Okay. What does that look like?

Geoff:
Well, they can accuse you of harassment or stalking or date rape, right?

Tucker:
Oh, my god. I didn’t even think about that. I’ve never really had that problem – well, one time, I actually did. It was terrible. You can absolutely have women who falsely accuse you of shit, and that’s fucking awful. That’s the worst thing that can ever happen to you, because what’s going to happen – especially in this day and age – is that people will assume that you’ve done it. You are guilty until proven innocent.

Nils:
Look at Duke Lacrosse. Those guys were innocent. They are guilty of being monstrous douchebags just because they go to Duke and they play Lacrosse. But they were innocent of the charges that they were assumed to be guilty of.

Tucker:
Totally innocent! Totally innocent. The coach got fired, most of those guys had to transfer, their entire lives are ruined, and they didn’t do anything wrong. You know? I’ve never actually told this story. That happened to me one time, and thank god…I didn’t get out of it. I had done nothing wrong. I’m not going to tell the story now. It’s still…it’s one of those things where it was like, I literally dodged a bullet. Almost literally. I metaphorically dodged a bullet that wasn’t meant for me. But thank God the cops dealing with it – it was great, man. They were like, “Yep. You’re getting hosed. We’re taking her in.” It was amazing and I got lucky. I got lucky, not ‘cause I did something wrong. I had done everything right. I had done nothing wrong. I got lucky that—

Nils:
You have to tell this story.

Tucker:
I can’t, dude. Alright, fuck it. I’ll tell the story.

Nils:
You can’t tease out a story like that. “Oh, just trust me.”

Tucker:
Okay. Basically, these three girls who went to WashU in St. Louis, which should really tell you everything you want to know, flew me down. I was maybe twenty-eight, twenty-nine. I was internet famous, but the book wasn’t out. I wasn’t famous famous yet. Flew me down and, “Oh, yeah. We’re going to have a threesome with you. We’re going to do all this stuff.” One of their moms worked for an airline, so they flew me down and I was like, alright.

Nils:
“Mom, fly our penis down.”

Tucker:
So, basically, long story short, there were two of them that kind of set it up and the third friend…there was a third girl that kind of found out and she wanted to sleep with me, too. So, she basically corralled me and fucked me before the other two could get to me and the other two got really upset at me instead of at their friend. I literally had not been in a room alone with the other two girls, right? So, I slept with one girl, no doubt. That girl and I hooked up, actually, more than a couple times, and…I just assumed I’d sleep with the other girls, too. I’ve got enough penis to go around. So, the other two girls got really upset and then got really drunk. Then, they went to go get food at a KFC or something, which was across the street. There were cops in the restaurant, so they were kind of giggling and they went up and told the cops, “Oh, yeah. This dude raped us and we want to report it.” And the cops were like, “What?” One of them was texting me while the other one was talking to the cops. They’re like, “Yeah. Come to KFC. We’re going to get some chicken and then we’re going to go have a threesome or whatever.” I swear to god, this is how it happened. Actually, it was Lee’s Famous Recipe. It wasn’t KFC. So, then I went to the—

Nils:
I was going to say, that is not the original recipe.

Tucker:
I went to the restaurant, and I remember walking up and I see these cops coming after me. I’m like, wow. Who did something wrong? ‘Cause they looked pissed off. And they come out and they’re like, “Are you Tucker Max?” And I’m like, “Yeah.” And they’re like, “Come over here. Talk to us.” So, basically, I realized they’re about to arrest me for rape, and I was like what the fuck is going on? Right? The only thing I’m thinking of is the girl I slept with. She was actually with me! So, I was like…we just had sex, but it couldn’t have been more consensual. She pulled me into this backroom at a party. So, the cop was like, “I don’t understand.” This is…2005? So, the fact that someone was interacting over the internet was still really weird. This is St. Louis, so St. Louis cops are fucking idiots, right? Although these guys were not idiots, so please forgive me, St. Louis cops. You guys saved my life. I was like, “Look. Let me tell you exactly what happened.” I told them what happened. I told one cop and he went in and talked to the other girls and the other cop came out and I had to tell him. Typical cop stuff. They want to hear the same story twice. Fine. I told him exactly what happened and they went in and the cops talked to each other and they were like yeah. They kind of realized what was going on. I literally hadn’t been around alone with the other two girls. It’s not like I slept with her and then she tried to cry rape afterwards, right? It was pretty awesome. The cops told me, “Look. We’re calling a taxi. Get in the taxi. There’s a hotel next to the airport in St. Louis. Stay there tonight. Get on the first flight out and don’t come back to St. Louis.” And then they took the two girls, they arrested them. I saw them come out of the restaurant in fucking cuffs, crying.

Nils:
Did they get to eat their chicken?

Tucker:
I don’t know. The funny part was the cop told me. He was like, “We’re not going to book them. That’s why we’re sending you back, ‘cause if we were actually going to press charges against them, we would have you here, take a statement.” He’s like, “We don’t want to go through with this shit. But this stuff is bullshit. We’re really fucking tired of this.” He didn’t really elaborate on what this meant, but he’s like, “This is bullshit. There’s nothing worse than people who report fake crimes or rape. We’re going to take them down to the station, scare the shit out of them, and then let them go. But you need to get out of here.” I was like, “Done, dude! No problem.” It was ridiculous, because the girl who I had actually slept with, she was malicious and awful. I didn’t realize this, either, which is what the other cop told me. She had been juicing the other two girls up, like, “Oh, yeah. I fucked him and you didn’t” and this and that. So, I got caught between this awful cat fight between three malignant cunts, right? And the two girls couldn’t go after their friend, so they went after me. It’s like they thought of this when they walked in the restaurant. They weren’t even…it’s like, “Oh! It’s a cop! Let’s tell him this dude raped us or whatever.” That’s actually the first time I’ve ever told that.

Nils:
So, if it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

Tucker:
Maybe, maybe not, man.

Nils:
It’s probably really bad.

Tucker:
Here’s the thing. Look, this shit – some version of this is going to happen to you if you fuck hundreds of girls. It just will, man. If you’re twenty-two, you’re sitting there listening to this and you’re saying, “It’s worth it,” and I’m not even going to disagree with you. Okay. I’ll tell you right now, I would not trade my life for a safer life, but I am where I am, right? It’s worked. So, I can look back and say, “Of course I wouldn’t trade it!” Because I ended up really succeeding, right? There are guys who have walked that line and maybe they fucked up or maybe they were stupid or maybe they did shit wrong. You know? That’s what’s so funny, is I’ve done shit, like driving drunk where I should’ve probably gone to jail. I didn’t hurt anyone. I’ve never killed anyone or anything like that. But there’s shit I did that I should’ve got caught for that I didn’t and then shit I got in trouble for that I didn’t even do, right? So, I kind of got lucky. But guys, when you walk that line, chances are you’re going to fall off it a few times and then how do you handle the consequences? That’s all we’re saying. I’m not saying do it or don’t. Just understand this is how it works.

Geoff:
The trouble isn’t just restricted to false allegations of rape. It’s also that the kind of emotionally unstable who you’ll sometimes run across in short-term mating also tend to have a lot of ex-boyfriends, right? If they’ve slept with a lot of men, there’s a lot of men out in the wings who know them, some of whom are kind of stalking them and obsessed with them and they can be super dangerous.

Tucker:
This happened to you. We talked about it on a previous podcast.

Geoff:
Yeah. And also, those women can stalk – if you break up with them and then you’re meeting another woman, those women can also be a danger to other women in your life. They can call them, harass them, text them, talk shit about them on social media. And they can also interfere with your work, your career. They can go talk to your boss.

Tucker:
Well, what happened to the campaign manager of whatever? One of the big senators or whatever? It just happened. He dated a porn star for a while and then broke up with her and she put all these pictures of his penis on Twitter and he had to quit his job! He didn’t do anything wrong. He just dated her and she was a crazy fucking person. Look, he probably has his own issues. Whatever.

Nils:
He’s in politics.

Tucker:
Right. Exactly. Nonetheless, he had to pay a price for that, you know?

Nils:
There’s a trade-off.

Geoff:
Yeah. So, particularly…in the era of social media, where any pissed off or upset woman can destroy your reputation through Twitter, Facebook, whatever—

Tucker:
I want to pick up. This is actually another drawback of short-term mating is it impacts how other women see you. It can be good or bad, but it creates a reputation for you. I have that reputation, and not just locally. Internationally. And in some ways, it’s good. Lots of women who want short-term relationships come to me, but when I started wanting longer-term relationships, it was actually a drawback, you know? I’m not saying that’s a reason not to do it. Just understand this is something to think about and to understand.

Geoff:
Yeah. If you’re developing a relationship with a potential medium-, long-term girlfriend, she will, sooner or later, ask, “How many women have you slept with?”

Tucker:
Be honest, guys. Tell the fucking truth from the beginning. I can’t emphasize that more.

Geoff:
And it’ll matter to her. One way or another, it’ll matter.

Tucker:
Yep. Exactly. So, some other things to consider about short-term mating. This strategy…it makes the most sense when you’re younger, generally speaking. Or let’s say you got married early and you got a divorce and you want to spend a few years exploring stuff. Also makes sense then.

Nils:
In transition.

Tucker:
Transition. Absolutely makes sense. Really, there’s certain cultures it doesn’t make sense in, it’s very hard to do. Other cultures, it’s very easy, so understand that if this is something you want, make sure you’re in a place where it’s doable. Another thing, not a lot of guys find short-term mating to be useful exclusively. Even guys who want to hook up a lot will have…like in my life, I almost always had two or three girls that were fuck buddies or that I had sort of longer-term relationships with that I would sleep with maybe once a week or something that I really liked. I also had shorter-term relationships, so you can combine strategies. Now, don’t combine something that forces you to lie or be deceitful, like, “Oh, I’m committed to her, but I’m fucking twenty other girls on the side.” Don’t do that. But very few guys find it successful to only do short-term mating and nothing else.

Geoff:
One reason is you don’t actually learn certain crucial things about women if you don’t spend a certain amount of time with an individual woman, getting to know her. Also, guys get better at sex mostly in medium- and long-term relationships, ‘cause those are the situations where you’re getting specific feedback that’s honest and actionable from an individual woman. The guys who only do short-term mating typically think they’re really good at sex, but they’re not.

Tucker:
It’s true. And women will tell you this. It’s absolutely true. From my own life, I can say that. Alright, so let’s go to medium-term relationships now. So, basically these are three or more encounters over more than a week or whatever. Something where it’s like, you have the girl’s number in your phone with her real name and not “Whore I Met On 6th St.” or something like that. These can be primarily sexual, where it’s like…she’s a booty call. A booty call is basically a girl you call after bars close or right as bars are closing. She comes over and she has sex or you go over and you have sex. You don’t interact outside of sex. You can do that for months with a girl, or years sometimes. You can also have a medium-term relationships where it’s like, that girl was more like a fuck buddy. Someone you hang out with and then you also sleep with, right? So, what’s good about these? Again, sex is always fun. It’s not as much novelty, but now you’re more comfortable, so it’s probably better sex, too.

Nils:
Learning, like Geoff just said.

Tucker:
Exactly. And you’re getting more sex, so like Dr. Miller said, you now gain more experience. That really is the way. Practice makes perfect at everything, sex included. So, if you’re sleeping with a girl three times a week or twice a week, you can talk about it. “Oh, what do you like? What do I like? Do you like it when I do this? Am I good at this? Should I do this differently? What works better?” That’s totally legit to talk about those things and valid. In fact, doing that is a sign of vulnerability, which is obviously very attractive to women. You can do it in a way where you’re not like, “Oh, sweetie. Is everything perfect for you?” You don’t have to be a pussy. You can say, “Hey. Do you like it when I pull your hair and spank you?” And if she says no, don’t do it. If she says yes, pull her fucking hair and smack her on the ass, ‘cause that’s what she wants, okay? What’s also good? Cost of acquisition is very low. That’s an economic term, obviously, but basically, you can get sex way easier if you know the girl and you guys have an established relationship that is sexual in nature. Then you can just call her, or it’s like, “Oh, hey. Let’s go get drinks,” or whatever. You don’t have to meet someone new. So, all that anxiety and all that effort is far lower. Reduces the risks that come with new partners, so STDs, crazy girls, etc. The risks of that go way down if you know the person. They tend to be less emotionally complicated than longer-term, committed relationships. Those can get complicated. We’ll talk about that in a second. The upside is, you’re still free to have sex with other girls, ‘cause medium-term relationships tend to be uncommitted, right? Now, let’s talk about…is there anything you guys want to talk about there? Should we talk about the bad stuff?

Nils:
Well, the uncomplicated point…I think it’s more or less true, but these are the scenarios where people tend to catch feelings. One side or the other tends to catch feelings.

Tucker:
That’s going to be negative. We’re going to get that in the negative stuff. Is there any other positive stuff I’m missing or any elaborations?

Geoff:
I mean, another cool thing about medium-term relationships is if it’s a fully consensual kind of fuck buddy thing, where you’re seeing a woman once in a while. I had a couple of these in grad school, where one particular woman, we’d get together basically every two weeks and talk psycholinguistics for two hours and then go have great sex. We clearly were not compatible as boyfriend/girlfriend. It’s actually liberating to realize, hey, I can get good relationships and fulfilling interaction with a woman without feeling obligated to be a boyfriend or to escalate it. In certain ways, we were a mismatch. We would never work as a couple, but what we did work as – at least for a while – was occasional sex buddies. And that’s fine. Once you learn that that’s okay, that there’s women who can fill a role in your life that isn’t restricted to, oh, she’s either got to be a one-night stand or girlfriend or wife, there’s lots of other relationships that you can have that are valid. The more you explore that, the more it kind of frees you from your societal programing about what a male/female relationship is supposed to be. That’s a little abstruse, but I think it’s important.

Tucker:
Yeah. Well, it makes sense. So, what’s bad about medium-term relationships? So, the sex can get boring ‘cause it’s the same person over and over. It doesn’t usually happen, but it can be boring and awkward or whatever. Sex without any emotional connection or lower emotional connection can still be unfulfilling. Again, it’s a continuum. This is not an either/or thing. Generally, the sex is going to be better than short-term mating, like one-night stands. Probably won’t be as good as committed or emotionally connected sex. For women, emotional connection usually comes with more either commitment or more time spent. Not always. Again, we’re talking generally, of course. Medium-term relationships can be used as a crutch to avoid intimacy or other emotional problems. Guys, I know I did that for a large period of my life. If you’re doing that, it’s sort of not the end of the world, guys. It’s okay. As long as you recognize it, it’s okay. It’s like the famous St. Augustine quote. “Lord, give me chastity and continence, but not yet.” Understand that that’s why a lot of people use these, ‘cause it’s sort of like…they don’t like short-term mating ‘cause that feels icky and cheap and sleazy, but they don’t want to date and commit because that’s too hard emotionally, so they have these series of sort of quasi-committed things. It doesn’t always mean it’s happening, but it could be there. On the other side of that, there can be a lot of emotional complications, like what you were talking about, Nils.

Nils:
Yeah. This happens a lot in college. One side will start getting feelings for the other, even though the premise of their entire interaction is that we’re just friends with benefits. They’ll call themselves that. They’ll mutually agree to it. They’ll even set schedules. Inevitably, somebody starts to have feelings and everything starts to rattle.

Tucker:
That’s happened to me about a million times. A million times. I cannot tell you guys how many girls have been like, “Oh, no. You’re Tucker Max. I just want this. I just want sex. I just want whatever,” and I’m like, “Awesome.” How many times have I been like “No, Nils. This girl’s different. She’s totally cool with just fucking twice a week” or whatever. And then three months later, she’s upset because I don’t want to date her. That’s happened so many times that it became almost like a joke, you know? It was a joke, in a way.

Geoff:
Well, women are kind of wired up that if they’re having great sex with a guy, they have that post-sex oxytocin and bonding and emotional attachment, and it just kind of happens naturally. So, even if a woman is going into a medium-term relationship and she thinks, “I don’t want a boyfriend. I don’t want commitment,” her own body is going to kind of nudge her towards emotional attachment if the sex is good. If the sex isn’t good, that’s another story. But it’s pretty hard for most women to maintain an expectation of no commitment and no intimacy if they keep having repeated great sex with you. That’s just kind of the way women work.

Nils:
And guys will get feelings, too. When that happens, you need to recognize that your goals have started to shift.

Tucker:
Right. That’s why I said, there can be emotional complications where feelings will develop on one side or the other. We’re not sitting here saying, “Oh, women are weak and they’re just going to have these emotions and you’ve got to deal with it.” No, dude. It can easily go the other way. In fact, it has with me. I can think of…far less often, but I can think of one girl in particular that I was sleeping with when I lived in New York, and she was really fucking hot and really smart and really cool. I actually kind of wanted to date her and she’s like, “Why would I date you? You’re just my fuck buddy,” and I was like, “Fuck you, bitch!”

Nils:
“I’m a person!”

Tucker:
Right? “I’m a person, too! I’m dateable!” No, seriously. It kind of developed like that a little bit and it was one of those things where I was not at the emotional point in my life where I could fully…first off, I wasn’t really ready to date someone, so probably she was just far more emotionally intelligent than I was and she realized I’d be a terrible boyfriend. She probably wasn’t looking for that and whatever. It was one of those things where I convinced myself I wanted to date her or I wanted to want to date her but I just wanted to fuck her more than I was fucking her or something. Listen, lying to yourself doesn’t make you stupid or weak. It just makes you a human. It’s what we all do. The best part is understanding it.

Geoff:
And it’s actually really useful to go through that experience, as a guy, of having sex with a woman and thinking, “This is just casual,” and then feeling that emotional attachment grow and then being frustrated and heartbroken, ‘cause it’s like, “Oh! This is what I did to those last six women I was with.”

Tucker:
Well, I didn’t think of it that way. I just kept fucking lots of different girls. Let’s not get crazy here. No, your point’s fantastic, though. It’s absolutely right. So, emotional complications can go either way, from you to her or her to you. They don’t always develop, but they develop a lot more than you may realize, guys. And then another drawback of medium-term relationships is that…okay. So, obviously, like we talked about, you can have sex with other girls? Well, she can fuck other guys, too! You know? So, if you’re really liking her or whatever, you’re grossed out by that or whatever, just understand, she’s not breaking the rules if she comes over to your place with a pussy full of some other dude’s sperm.

Nils:
…Delicious.

Tucker:
I’m being a little harsh to make you understand—

Nils:
She’s bringing her own lube.

Tucker:
Right! Well, that’s one way to put it. You fucking weirdo.

Nils:
There’s also reputational implications for the emotional complication part. Like, if you happen to have this string of medium-term relationships where women have started to have feelings, chances are this is happening inside a universe where people know each other or are one or two degrees removed. All of a sudden, you’re the guy who strings girls along.

Tucker:
Yep. Yep. That does not help you have sex with other girls, if that’s what your reputation is, usually. Another thing to talk about, too, with complications is that one of the problems with the medium-term relationship is that one or both parties have defined the relationship in poor terms. So, if I think X and she thinks Y, there’s going to be problems, right? And those usually cause anxiety and they create drama and they create issues.

Nils:
And resentment.

Tucker:
Resentment, anger, any number of things. So, make sure if you’re going to do that – and believe me, having medium-term relationships at some point in your life is probably a good thing. I think you learn a lot more from those, actually, than from short-term relationships. I think for most guys, very short-term one-night stand type things…you should basically look at those as opportunistic only and you should focus on, you know, when I’m going to go through my stage of seeing a lot of women, it’s going to be mostly medium-term relationships. That’s okay. That’s a good thing. You’re going to get way better with sex, way better with women, way better with understanding yourself if you mostly focus on those sorts of relationships, for the vast majority of guys.

Geoff:
Yeah. Another advantage of the medium-term is that you start to calibrate your own preferences in terms of what is going to matter to you in the future. So, I didn’t realize, for example, how important a woman’s wit and intelligence was to me until I had some medium-term relationships in college and grad school, and I started to feel bored, intellectually bored, emotionally bored, with a woman. Some of the most physically attractive women that I dated in grad school – you know, women doing amazing PhDs and awesome research, but who just didn’t grab me personally. It’s really valuable to start sensing that kind of boredom and to go, “Oh, my god. I actually care about something about women other than how they look!” And if you’re only doing short-term mating, you never learn that and you’re liable to marry some woman just because she looks hot. Then, three months later, you’re bored to tears and you realize this is not working. Why? ‘Cause you didn’t have enough medium-term relationships to learn your own preferences.

Tucker:
Yup.

Nils:
Yeah. I had that with the importance of a good relationship with her family, you know? I, initially, was like, “Keep me out of that fucking drama.” You know? And the strong family connection that was just normal family issues and the strong relationships that she had with her family made for a much more stable and reliable relationship.

Geoff:
Another downside of medium-term is, as Tucker said, it’s hard to define these, ‘cause most of the terms we have for medium-term relationships, like fuck buddy or booty call are really derogatory and they’re kind of…there’s a social stigma about them.

Tucker:
You can say, “I’m seeing someone.” That’s about the best one that…and it doesn’t really…

Geoff:
It’s easy for women to kind of mishear that as, “I’m your boyfriend.” Right? And it is implying some commitment level. Even saying, “I’m your lover.” So, there aren’t any good recognized social terms for this, and that can create a lot of confusion. Miscommunication.

Tucker:
Absolutely. Yeah. Listen, one of you two mentioned this earlier. I actually don’t think it’s a bad thing to use medium-term relationships to transition into longer-term ones, you know? I’m not saying that’s always the way it works or that you should look at them as extended try outs, but if that’s what they become, if you’re that type of person that likes to ease into things slowly, the last thing you should ever think is just because some girl slept with you without commitment for a few weeks, that means she’s not girlfriend material. That’s total bullshit. Total bullshit. Do you want that logic applied to you? No. That’s bullshit. If a woman is using sex as a weapon against you to make you date her, that’s something you should be suspicious about. I’m actually far more attracted to women who are comfortable with sex, comfortable with their bodies, comfortable with their decisions, and are willing. “Yeah. I like this guy. I want to have sex with him for a little while, hang out with him for a little while, and if something more develops, that’s cool. And if not, that’s okay.” To me, that’s a positive thing in a woman. A lot of guys look down on women for that, and I think those guys tend to be very insecure about themselves and they project it onto women’s sexuality. So, they think if a woman’s going to sleep with me in any way that is less than some princess prudish image that I have in my mind, then that means she’ll do that with anyone. But that’s really a reflection on you, dude. Not on her. You know? That means that you don’t think you have enough value that she will stay with you. You look for a woman who won’t sleep with you and makes you bust your ass and date her for six months or some nonsense before you put a ring on her finger, whatever. What those women – not all of them, ‘cause some women are just like that. That’s okay, but what women who are doing that are doing is manipulating your emotional state, not actually connecting with you emotionally. But that has something to do with you, too. Not just them.

Geoff:
The tricky thing about the way we’re breaking down these short-, medium-, long-term relationships is it’s not like you know when you first meet a woman what kind of relationship it’s going to be. Most of the medium-term relationships I’ve had started out as short-term and then, lo and behold, I liked her or whatever, the sex was great, and it’s like, “I want to see her again.” And then it becomes medium-term. Then, if it doesn’t stop, it sort of becomes long-term. So, it’s not like—

Tucker:
I’ve absolutely had two of those that went from short to medium to long.

Geoff:
So, it’s not like you meet a woman and you have a first date and you go, “Hey, would you like to have a long-term relationship with me?” Right? It just kind of develops organically. Unless you’re in a certain subculture, like, India, arranged marriage…

Tucker:
That’s a whole different thing. We have to do a different podcast for India. That shit’s totally different.

Nils:
Or outsource it.

Geoff:
Yeah. But bear in mind, you don’t know when a relationship is starting, whether you might end up married to the girl. And that’s another reason to kind of try to treat her pretty well.

Tucker:
Yep. Exactly. That almost might be its own podcast, this kind of going between relationships. We’ll see if guys want more info about that. Alright, so let’s talk about long-term relationships. So, this is, like, standard boyfriend/girlfriend, we are dating, committed, or you’re seeing each other three times and you’re maybe not committed yet, but you’re basically right there. Something like that. So, I think the basic test for long-term means that you talk about this relationship to your friends. You introduce her to people as your girlfriend or as your partner or whatever. She’s part of your life in more than just a hangout, sexual way. Usually, it’s boyfriend/girlfriend committed. Not always, but something close. So, what’s good about these? Well, generally speaking, it’s the best sex. At least, in my experience, the best sex I’ve ever had in my life is almost always, 80% of the best sex I’ve ever had in my life has been with girls that I’ve been dating and in a committed relationship with. Some people, you just have amazing physical chemistry with, and it’s incredible. Though I’ll tell you, I can think of a couple of those girls that, like, on a one-night stand, I’m like, “Oh, my god. I would fuck this girl every day for the rest of my life,” and then I turn it into a medium-term relationship and two weeks later, I’m like, “Get the fuck away from me.” The great sex is not worth it or it’s not great sex anymore. It degrades because there was a lot of physical chemistry, but there’s nothing to back it up and it degrades. That happens all the time. With long-term, it usually goes the other way around. Veronica and I – actually, the first time we had sex was not that great. The second time was better. Third time was much better. By the time we were into double digits, it was incredible, and that’s true for almost every girl I’ve dated long-term. So, you’re going to have better sex. Why do you have better sex? It’s not just familiarity. It’s also because if you’re committed to someone, generally speaking, it’s because you have an emotional commitment to them. Guys, whether you understand it or not, there’s an emotional commitment to sex that is anywhere from 50-95% of what you take out of it. If you’re young, the younger you are, it tends to be the less emotional commitment. I would say, when I was in my twenties, the emotional part was maybe 20%. Now, it’s probably 80+%, right? It’s shifted. It’s just kind of slowly shifted for me. I’m a little bit different. For other people, I think, some guys treat sex more the way that women tend to, which is far more emotional. They take far more emotional benefit out of it. This is not a hard and fast rule. There will be plenty of women who aren’t like that, but generally speaking, men tend to approach sex more physically. Women tend to approach it more emotionally. But if you can combine the both, it’s always the best of both worlds. Speaking of emotions, it allows you to be emotionally vulnerable, to share your experiences with someone, to connect with them, to talk about things, to trust them. All that stuff is fantastic. You may not understand that as a guy at sixteen, eighteen, twenty, twenty-two, or maybe you do. If you do, that’s great. I didn’t. Some guys don’t. You probably did. You did. I didn’t, you know?

Geoff:
Well, let’s break this down a little bit, ‘cause when young guys hear intimacy, connection, they’re like, “Why do I want that? That sounds lame.” It means, specifically, things like your girlfriend can give you emotional support when you are depressed or under stress. She will make you feel better. You’ll be able to talk about specific things in your life, your school, your career. She will give you good advice. She will be a friend to you.

Tucker:
Well, like we talked about in attraction. Make her life better. A good relationship, she also makes your life better. That’s the way it should be. This road goes both ways, guys.

Geoff:
Yeah. And she’ll make it better in all kinds of ways. You’ll learn stuff, not just about her, but about women in general and how to relate to them and how they think and feel. Guys who only have short-term relationships with women hardly ever get that window of insight into the female mind, ‘cause women are guarded and they don’t open up. But girlfriends will share more than you can imagine about their lives.

Tucker:
Sometimes, more than you want to hear.

Geoff:
But that’s good, ‘cause that’s where you get that crucial experience as a man of understanding a woman’s point of view.

Tucker:
For me, at least, it was very hard to understand why I would want a girlfriend as opposed to fuck a bunch of different girls until I got to the point – and it took me a long time to emotionally mature, and if you’re one of those guys, you may not want a girlfriend until you’re in your mid- or late-twenties or even thirties, right? That happens. It doesn’t mean you’re fucked up. It probably means you have some emotional issues you need to work through, but it doesn’t mean you’re a crazy person or anything like that. Some guys mature relatively quickly, and they understand having a girlfriend’s great. Understand that what we’re trying to explain to you guys is there are trade-offs. If you have a girlfriend, it means you can’t whatever, do all these things and vice versa. Okay. There’s not a right answer. It’s just what’s right for you at that point in your life. The other big, I think, sort of benefit of having a long-term girlfriend is the cost of acquisition for sex is the lowest possible, right? Medium-term, it’s still you’ve got to call a girl, you’ve got to arrange your schedule, she’s coming over, whatever. A girlfriend, it’s basically assumed that whenever you want to have sex, you can have sex.

Nils:
Assuming you have a healthy relationship.

Tucker:
Right. Assuming you have a healthy sexual relationship and that kind of stuff, which is—

Nils:
Or emotional relationship.

Tucker:
Both. Right. Which is…this podcast and Mating Grounds, we’re not really designed to go a lot into what to do in a relationship. It’s much more about how to understand women, how to understand yourself, and how to get yourself to the point where you can have as many relationships of the highest quality that you want. To get into the relationships. What you do in the relationships then becomes sort of a separate thing. We’ll talk a little bit about it in terms of boyfriend/girlfriend casual. We don’t really go into marriage stuff that much. That’s almost a separate thing. We’ll do a whole separate thing. Maybe we don’t even do it. Maybe we’ll find someone who’s better than us at relationships to do it, ‘cause there’s a lot to learn about in relationships. But, generally speaking, in a healthy sexual relationship, the cost of acquisition for sex is zero, or next to zero.

Geoff:
Yeah. What we mean specifically by this is if you’ve never had sex with a woman before, it’ll typically take at least five to ten hours of conversation, at least, to get her to have sex with you. If she happens to already be your girlfriend, it’ll basically take two or three texts during the day—

Tucker:
Two or three texts? I’ll drive Veronica in the bedroom right now and shoot a load in her!

Geoff:
I’m talking about what will turn her on throughout the day. Like, if you send her two or three texts throughout the day, going, “Oh, you looked really cute this morning.” And then later, “I’m really looking forward to seeing you later.” Then, by the time she gets home—

Tucker:
That’s a lot of effort.

Nils:
Especially if standard data rates apply.

Tucker:
Yeah. Okay. I’m kidding. I know what you’re saying. Guys, you don’t even have to put that much in. Obviously—

Nils:
You just grunt and point at your penis.

Tucker:
Right. Like, Geoff is far more romantic than I am, which is fine. Women like that. Guys like that. That’s not a bad thing. If that’s who you are, do that. I am more—

Geoff:
The reason I was talking about the texting is it’s actually much more efficient to do a little romantic gesture six hours before you have sex than to do a lot of romantic effort right before sex when you’ve neglected her all day. You get more leverage out of planning ahead.

Tucker:
So, I think our discussion actually just reinforced a point, guys. Different guys can have different preferences. Geoff dates a different type of woman because he likes to interact with her in different ways, and that’s fine. I date a different type of women. We interact in different ways. Here’s what’s funny. The type of woman I date wouldn’t like interacting with Geoff. The type of woman Geoff dates wouldn’t like interacting with me…Neither are right or wrong. They’re both perfectly valid. In fact, they’re both right. The point is, pair up with the right people for you, not do the “right thing” because there’s no such thing as one right thing, you know? Alright, so those are the upsides. We didn’t list a bunch of them, but the ones we listed are big. They’re all very, very big things. Emotional connection, lots of sex, learning about women, being able to be vulnerable. All that sort of stuff is really fantastic.

Geoff:
Can I add one more?

Tucker:
Add all you want.

Geoff:
I think another advantage of long-term relationships is you build a crucial skill of being able to interact with a woman’s friends and relatives, and that will be really, really important if and when you do actually develop a long-term relationship, get married, have kids. It takes practice. It really takes practice to meet the girlfriend’s friends and workmates and boss and meet her mom and dad and all that, and the more of that you do, the better you get at it. It’s a distinct social life skill, and you can’t develop it if you only do short-term mating. It also helps you learn the importance of finding a woman whose friends and relatives you get along with. If that’s not on your radar, it should be.

Tucker:
Yep. Alright, so what are the downsides? Like we said, everything in life is a trade-off. So, your risk. Emotional risk, specifically. You don’t have any more risk with STDs, generally speaking. You don’t have any risk with crazy people unless you are dating a crazy person, and if so, you’re probably crazy, too, so it’s probably not a risk. But what you are at risk is the risk of being hurt.

Nils:
She could break your heart.

Tucker:
Yeah. She could break your heart. But here’s the thing, man. You don’t get the benefits of vulnerability and emotional connection without putting yourself out there, at least, to some extent. For some people, that’s intolerable, but I don’t know. It was for me for a long time, I know, and then I kind of realized that I was missing more than I was getting and I kind of shifted and it’s been way better for me. But it’s always a risk. It just is. A lot of guys, especially, and women, will try and keep a foot in both camps to mitigate the risk. That doesn’t mitigate the risk. It really doesn’t. All you’re doing is you’re not getting either upside.

Nils:
When you stand in the middle of the road, that’s when you get run over.

Tucker:
Yep. Go one way or the other. Both can work. All three can work. But you need to do them, not try and do other things at once. You, generally speaking, aren’t going to be able to have sex with other people. You’re committed, so novelty goes down, but it’s much easier to have sex and it’s going to be better sex. Trade-off, right? Long-term relationships can also become stale and stagnant in a lot of ways. You can get bored. There’s lots of ways to avoid that. The big one is to date someone who’s not boring and who makes you happy, but that can happen.

Geoff:
Yeah. You can get stuck in a rut. You can find yourself waking up at age thirty going, “Oh, I’ve been dating this girl for five years and I know she’s kind of not quite right for me, but—“

Tucker:
“I’ve invested so much time…”

Geoff:
“I’ve invested and she has expectations and I don’t want to be the bad guy.” If you don’t have the guts to leave something that isn’t going somewhere, then you can waste a high proportion of your adult life in long-term relationships that don’t work, just ‘cause it’s easy.

Nils:
Yeah. Your comfort is a huge anesthetic. I mean, it just…when it gets easy, it’s very hard to break that inertia. It’s incredibly difficult.

Tucker:
Exactly.

Nils:
‘Cause everything else in life is difficult. You know, you’ve got other shit to deal with, so if you can count on that easy relationship from 6PM till 6AM, that you know you don’t have to worry about any shit, it makes the struggle from 6AM to 6PM easier to bear.

Tucker:
Right. Alright, so we’ve run you through what the basic types of relationships are, the good, and the bad. Why have we done that? So you can make a decision about your life, okay? Understand, guys – I can’t emphasize this enough. Think about this. How ridiculous would it be if I said there’s a right food to eat? Of course not! That doesn’t make any sense! Look, if you want to be healthy, there’s certain foods you should avoid. If you don’t care, then fucking eat them, right? Same shit. There is no such thing as a right or wrong relationship. Every type of romantic relationship is valid. I want to emphasize that again and again. What’s right is what’s right for you and your partners at that point in your life, meaning shit can change. If you’re twenty-one and you want to bang every girl possible, great. Go do it. If you’re twenty-three and you want to maybe date three different women at once and kind of see how that goes, great. Do it. If you’re twenty-eight and want to find a great woman and commit to her and see, maybe, if you want to get married, do it. All of them are right. Can’t emphasize that enough, guys.

Nils:
And it doesn’t necessarily go in that order. They can flip-flop around, and the key is making that shift is going to hurt. If you’re in a relationship, but you realize, “I don’t want to be in a relationship. I just want to see what’s out there,” you’re going to hurt her. There’s no escape route where everybody comes out hunky dory and you’re still a fucking golden god and she’s still going to tell her parents that you’re great. It’s going to hurt. But the longer you wait, the more painful it’s going to be and then everything goes to shit. So, just own that. You have to own that.

Tucker:
Yep.

Nils:
Rip the bandaid off.

Tucker:
One of the things, I think, that kind of leads to a larger point here is two things. Guys, you need to understand – we say this over and over, if you are just looking for a checklist of what to do in life, you are going to fail at life. It will be shitty. You need to think for yourself. We are giving you every bit of information we can and every tool you need to think for yourself, but at some point, you still got to shit yourself. We can’t hold your dick for you when you piss. You’ve got to think a little bit and figure out what’s right for you. Also, understand, I think, the other big lesson is that the point of a relationship – when you’re trying to decide, “What do I want?” think, “What are my needs? What do I need at this point in my life?” Then, go find girls who…whatever it is. I want short-term. Fine. Go find girls who want the same thing and your relationship can meet their needs, too. That’s what a relationship does. Even a friendship. Any sort of relationship is about meeting the needs of both people in the relationship, right? So, notice how we say – we’ve never said, “Oh, you want a short-term relationship? Here’s how you convince girls to do that.” No. You would never do that. That’s a disaster. And the same thing with long-term! The worst thing you can do is take a girl who just wants to fuck and try and make her a girlfriend. If she doesn’t want it, she doesn’t want it. Like, we get so much email from guys, “Oh, I met this girl and she wants to have a boyfriend but I don’t want that,” or, “She wants to just have sex and I want to date her. How can I convince her of X?” You fucking idiots. You can’t. Find a girl who wants what you want and meet each other’s needs.

Geoff:
You know, the larger picture here is if you’re a young man today in America, you are so lucky. Historically, this is the best time ever to be able to explore all the different sexual options that are on the table. There are more choices than ever. It’s all confusing. You can choose short, medium, long-term. You can be committed. You can be polyamorous. You can be bisexual. Whatever. There’s all kinds of different options, but that’s great. Don’t be frightened by those options. Enjoy them. There are a lot of older guys running around envying your freedom. “These 20-year-olds have it so great! All the constraints that shaped me into I can either have one-night stands with hookers or marry a girl.” Those are not the only options anymore. So you’re lucky. You’re a really fortunate generation to have these choices and it can seem overwhelming to navigate through them, but that’s your privilege and you might as well take advantage of it.

Tucker:
Yeah. I think if you guys didn’t learn enough from that, then you can’t learn anything.

Join the Mating Grounds Mailing List

Get the voicemail number to ask us your questions directly:

SHARE THIS ARTICLE