16th of March 2015

Helping Joe, Episode 6


In week 6 of Helping Joe, Charlie brings in one of his female friends to show Joe first hand what she experiences when dating online or through Tinder. She also gives him feedback on his profile and advice* on what to do and not to do when messaging women. Tucker makes a lot of jokes and draws out great feedback from her. He is a case study here for one way to tease and have fun with a woman.

*She was good at knowing what she wanted but awful at extrapolating this across women in general. Most of what she said was specific to her. Never ask one woman what all women want because she will project her preferences onto all women and give you terrible advice. It’s better to ask a woman what she personally wants and listen.


You can click here (right click, then click save as) to download the episode directly.

Click here to subscribe to the podcast on iTunes.
Click here to subscribe to the podcast on Stitcher.

Joe’s Thoughts and Takeaways From This Episode:

Hey this is a running commentary of random thoughts, notes, and takeaways I had during or after this episode. – Joe


  • One way to tease and be playful with a woman (listen to Tucker in this episode)
  • Understand first-hand what it’s like for a woman on Tinder and Plenty of Fish
  • How women look at your online dating profile
  • How NOT to message women online and why she might not respond to you.
  • What happens when you send a dick pic
  • Women are different and want different things. A lot of advice they give is what works for them and not what works overall.

Charlie invited Shannon to come in to talk about her stories on Tinder and Plenty of Fish to get her perspective of what online dating is like for a woman. She had some funny stories, some good advice, and some not so good advice.

What I thought was more interesting than this was watching the back and forth between Tucker and Shannon. Tucker made jokes, asked her questions to draw out interesting things she had to say, was teasing her, and called her out when she was kinda being full of shit at times. This is something I want to learn how to do better because it’s a fun way of initially flirting with a chick and you can figure out pretty quick if there’s any chemistry. Obviously, there wasn’t any between her and Tucker because Tucker’s married, but he did make her (and us) laugh a lot during this episode. I took notes on some of his jokes and ways he challenged her bad advice, see below.

Unfortunately Shannon was sharing a mic with Charlie and he was generous letting her have it for pretty much the whole episode. He didn’t get many words in.

@1:00 – Back and forth between Shannon and Tucker

Right off the bat, Tucker notices she has 2 phones and makes a joke about it. I was too nervous and in my head to notice this.

And when she says “message within your own category” … immediately Tucker says, “What do you mean?” diving deeper into what she was saying to pull out some good feedback she had for guys.

@5:00 – Plenty of Fish VS Tinder and What It’s Like For Women

“If I’m swiping right, I’m matching with whoever I’m swiping with.” When she swipes right, 75% of the time it’s a match.

This is very different from my experience as a dude and a ginger. I’d say less than 5% of those I swipe right with turn out to be matches. I had 20 matches in 1 week. She had 70 messages in 1 day. Haha damn.

@6:45 – Messaging on Tinder

It’s funny Shannon had to google “fwb”.

Tucker makes another small joke, kind of teasing / challenging what she is saying.

@8:45 – Shannon’s Tinder drinking game and my Tinder pics

Ahhhh fuck her and her stupid drinking game 🙂

I think her advice sucks here. I like that picture and too many people liked it on Facebook for me to take it down.

@12:00 – “You are also an attractive woman so you can almost do anything you want and still get matches.”

This is funny and I think Tucker nailed it here. This is why what she does with her profile doesn’t really matter. As long as she looks cute, that’s it, and she’ll get matches.

@12:45 – “I thought gelato was a weird first date.”

Hahahaha Shannon rips on gelato without knowing that gelato is actually my go to first date idea. I don’t think gelato is that weird but whatever. We probably wouldn’t get along and I’m starting to think here that she was not a good person to bring on the podcast to critique my Tinder game.

@14:00 – Shannon talks about a bad first date. Tucker and Charlie make jokes.

@15:00 – Tucker teasing or busting on her

Tucker on her Tinder drinking game, “It’s not a drinking game, it’s a sewing circle. It’s women who are drinking and being catty about things.”

The way she laughed at this, Tucker was right and called it here.

Shannon: “We’re not mean girls. We’re really not.”
Tucker: (loses it and laughs) “That’s the biggest load of bullshit…”

I don’t know if Charlie or I would have called her out on this. I definitely wouldn’t have. But it was a funny moment, she was obviously stretching the truth with a white lie and it was funny Tucker called her on it.

@17:00 Understanding how women think when they look at online dating bios

How she reads into profile bios. Many men write shitty profiles that are checklists for what they want in women, like they are shopping for a car, and that is a turn off for most women because they feel objectified.

Shannon gives an example of what a bad bio looks like and how it repels her.

Lesson here is think about how a woman would read into and look at your bio. Or better ask a female friend for honest feedback.

@21:00 – We take a look at Shannon’s profile.

Tucker turns this around, puts her on the hot seat, and we take a look at her profile. A few jokes follow.

“So you think it’s funny and okay when you do a ridiculous picture with a comment, but when he does it with the ginger thing, you think it’s [lame]… Smells like hypocrisy to me.” Tucker was being nice here.

@23:30 – Women are much more subtle than guys. Tiny details mean a lot to women.

@25:30 – How most guys fuck up when they message women.

She had 100+ matches in 2 days… I would hate getting back to 100 emails in 2 days. I can’t imagine messaging back and forth with 100 women. It’s impossible to get back to all of them.

She goes into a few examples of how guys send awful messages.

She also mentions that she’s not on Tinder any more because it’s “douchebaggy” … after this episode I’m starting to think Tinder is not the right website or the right market for me. From her feedback, the app is mostly short-term hookups (I’m not looking for this) and douchebags (which I am not)

@28:00 – Dudes sending dick pics

She tells a story of getting a “good morning” message / picture of some dude’s dick. “Why?! I didn’t even ask for this.” This is funny

But it’s also sad because the user experience is so bad for women who want to have fun or looking for a boyfriend. They get worn down by the barrage of dick picks and “yea I’d fuck you” messages from creeps. I think this is common for women, getting these shitty message or pics in the middle of the day or right when they wake up.

A beautiful girl I went out with (we might get into this later in another episode but probably not because there wasn’t much chemistry) told me she was new to Tinder, only a week in, went out with me because I was 1 of only 3 people who were nice to her that week, and it’s a scary app because random men message her about how they want to fuck her.

Shannon: “If you’re going to send a dick pic, it’s going to get forwarded to every single one of that girl’s friends.”
Tucker: “So you get dick pics from men AND from women.”

@30:00 – Understanding why women don’t respond to you online

She has so many messages that she doesn’t have time to get back to everyone and it’s a big chore to filter through everyone.

“If I don’t go on for a week, I dread it because I know I’m going to have so many messages.”

@33:00 – I was rambling here but my point was I think it’s better to get to the point and ask someone out (“Tea or gelato?”) than ask “Hey how are u?” because every other mf is doing that.

She was looking at me like I was weird for doing this but whatever (skip to 5 minutes ahead to hear her complete reversal on this.)

@35:30 – “Lots of women are different and want different things. A lot of advice they give is what works for them and not what works [overall].”

Tucker’s point here was that you can get a lot of good feedback from women but you have to take some of it with a grain of salt. What one woman likes or says to do sometimes isn’t the best to follow when interacting with all women.

Shannon: “You are a gelato, ice tea person, or whatever the hell you said…”

Tucker: “’Whatever the hell you said.’ I’m a pretty woman and I can’t listen to words. It’s too hard for me. Just give me shiny stuff.” The way Tucker says this is hilarious.

Shannon: “Oh, shut up!”

@37:00 – Tucker ripping on me and my goddamn chili I made today

I’m trying to get my testosterone levels up (see Episodes 1 & 2 of Helping Joe). So I threw like 3lbs of beef, 24 eggs, 2lbs of spinach, and like 5 other things into big pot and cooked it until it turned into this weird chili mixture. Then I put into containers and carried it around in my backpack to eat later. Today the container was leaking when I came over to record the podcast, fml. Tucker makes fun of me for this here.

I had a decent comeback. This was the first time that I made fun of Tucker on the podcast I think and it was funny: He doesn’t have shit to eat at his house. ½ his fucking fridge is full of bone marrow and raw meat that I can’t cook. He also has a lot of protein bars and dark chocolate and fancy cheese. No chips, no snacks, no leftovers I can steal. Shannon laughs at this so I count that as a small win.

@39:00 – Back to messaging on Tinder and online dating

She completely turns her advice/opinion around from what she said 5 minutes ago. Now she says getting to the chase and what I do (asking girls out right away) is cool. Wtf?!

Tucker: “So you think a good solution is to meet quickly after you’ve matched?”
Shannon: “Yes”
Tucker: “Which is what Joe told you he does about 10 minute ago and you argued with him…”

@44:00 – Shannon recommends Plenty of Fish

This is good advice I think. Looking at results so far and just how Tinder works, I think I’m on the wrong app or website and should try out PoF or OkCupid because people might be more interested in dating here.

One last funny joke from Tucker:

Shannon: “That’s another weird thing. I get couple [threesome] messages. Like ‘Hey …’”
Tucker: “You look like that type.”
Shannon: “That is so mean!” (I think she was smiling when she said this.)
Tucker: “I’m kidding!”

And I make a joke about a “fuck-fest” here. Tucker laughs.
Next Week’s Goals (same as last week)

  • Reframe your thoughts about dates. Get rid of ineffective ideas/thoughts and replace with ones above. Remind yourself before going out.
  • Read Choke by Sian Beilock
  • Two things to do on next date: (1) What can I find out interesting about her? and
    (2)How can I have fun on this date? (I don’t know but will have to figure something out)
  • Keep going on more Tinder dates
  • Start meditating, 5 minutes a day (Tucker recommended 10% Happier by Dan Harris)
  • Have a growth mindset, set reminders to think of yourself as a work in progress instead of a failure

Join the Mating Grounds Mailing List

Get the voicemail number to ask us your questions directly: