9th of March 2015

Helping Joe, Episode 5


In week 5 of Helping Joe, Nils steps in via Skype while Charlie is playing it away. Nils brings a different set of questions (and jokes) to dealing with Joe’s issues. He and Tucker dive a little deeper into why Joe gets nervous on first dates and how to reframe one’s mindset when going into a date to have more fun and be more relaxed, which ultimately will lead to those dates going better. They also talk about understanding women and setting better expectations for date.


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Joe’s Thoughts and Takeaways From This Episode:

Hey this is a running commentary of random thoughts, notes, and takeaways I had during or after this episode. – Joe


  • Understanding women and why she might flake on a Tinder date
  • How to recognize and replace ineffective or irrational thoughts before a date (how to be less nervous)
  • How to have fun on dates OR how to never have a bad date (stories included)
  • Women have other factors impacting their preferences. Her happiness is not dependent on you delivering the goods. It’s not your job to bring everything to the table

Nils is fucking funny. Some day I want to ask him how the hell he comes up with great jokes like all the time. Was he always like that or did he learn/improve become funnier as he got older? Because he’s funnier than Tucker, like way funnier, just listen to the podcasts. His line “I have a red-headed tumor to cut out of my life” line was great.

Even though Nils was hilarious, doing this over Skype was weird. It wasn’t as fun and conversation didn’t flow like it does with Charlie and when we’re all in the same room. It was also a short episode, but went deeper into specific problems.

@beginning – Tinder dates cancel

I got really down when this happened last Sunday because I thought I was doing alright: 2 dates in one day, that’s great. Then one was a no show and other canceled. One chick was really hot + my type… I usually don’t match with those girls on Tinder because I’m not that attractive… Just fucking sucked. I was a little angry but more depressed. Not like my whole day was ruined but I felt like slamming my face into a table.

Tucker and Nils:

  • There are a million reasons why a woman might not want to go out with you. It’s just part of the game. “You’re competing with her entire life.” and “Friends trump strangers [especially dudes on Tinder].” Yea this makes sense.
  • And she doesn’t owe you anything even if she makes plans to go out.
  • And this is a good problem to have. At least you’re setting up dates. 2 months ago you had 0 dates.
  • It’s like paying taxes. [Tucker’s analogy here is great.]

What’s confusing is why does a chick give you her number if she’s not interested in going out.

@5:00 – Understanding Women on Tinder

Some women can use Tinder as an ego-validation device. It’s a huge ego boost and reassurance that they will never be alone. Women are prob more insecure than we are.

@8:00 – My emotional response to dates canceling + expectations

Tucker talks about choking and how I psychologically put more at stake or more pressure on myself than there actually is in real life: Nothing bad can happen, but I still going in there fucking nervous. But there’s no rational reason to be nervous on a first date because the consequences are so small.

@14-20 – Recognizing, replacing ineffective or irrational thoughts

My stupid thoughts now: “Is she going to like me?” (her judgement) + “Will this go well?” (performing)

More effective: “Do I like her?” + “What’s interesting about her?” + “How can we have fun on this date?”
Or even better: What can I find out interesting about her? + How can I have fun?

@16:00 – Nils didn’t have a bad date on back in the day.

His point was that if the date sucked, he fucked around, had fun, didn’t care, and still had a good time.

I don’t know how this is true. How is that possible?

@18:00 – “You are putting her validation of you ahead of your interest in her.”

Nils hit nail on head with this. That’s one reason why I’m anxious in beginning and dates start off slow.

“You need to figure out how you feel about her first.”

@20:00 – Having fun on dates

Tucker says, it frees you from being in your own head, and having fun your way attracts girls that are into you and repels girls that aren’t into you so that you don’t waste time on them.

To be honest I don’t think I’m in a position where I can repel any attractive women and I don’t want to repel anyone. I know that’s kind of a stupid thing to say but it’s a part of not being successful at this. I have so little going on right now that I don’t want to lose out on potential pussy. I talk more about this @23:30

@22:00 – Listen to the words you use

Tucker was right here. Dating is a way for each of us to judge each other. But I’m mostly concerned with her judgement of me and the date going well.

@23:00 – “You have a right to want what you want.”

They give 2 good analogies here:

1. Business branding analogy that I get because I’ve worked in marketing and I know that you have to set yourself apart to find true fans or customers, you have to exclude some people and define who you are so that people connect with you. You can’t be all things to all people. But I don’t know if I have that luxury, maybe my personal marketing or branding just sucks.

2. What if a giant fat awful troll wants to date you?
“Netflix and and hanging out with your dog is a great options compared to 80% of people out there.” And that’s okay.

@26:00 – Why blaming yourself for everything going wrong (internalizing outside things) is hyper egotistical.

This is the direct opposite of Tucker who always blames others around him for being jackasses.

“Every [woman] has other factors impacting their preferences or choices. [Her] happiness is not dependent on you delivering the goods.” – Nils
I think his point was that there are many other things going on that affect whether or not she might be into you:
Her mood that night: Maybe her cat was an asshole that day or she’s on her period or her boss is a red-headed jerk.
Her emotional issues: Maybe she has weird daddy issues.
The place we are at: Maybe she doesn’t like the venue.

“It’s not your job to bring everything to the table. In a good relationship, you both bring something.” – Tucker

I think these last 2 points where the best in the podcast but I missed them listening to this the first time.

I think as a man taking a woman on a date, I should be awesome and fun and all this other stuff. And she should just be hot, show up, be cool, and we’ll have a good time. I don’t put enough expectations on her to carry her own weight in the conversation or her sense of humor or anything. Normally how I think is that what she’s bringing to the table is that she’s hot and fun, I have to bring all this other stuff. I wish we went more into this topic.

@28:00 – Dates this week

We didn’t get to these this week. This podcast was rushed to be honest, but I posted it because there’s still good stuff here and Nils is awesome. We dive into these dates in Episode 7, I believe.

@28:30 – Two things to focus on in my next dates

1. What can I find out interesting about her?

2. How can I have fun (your own version of fun) on this date?

(We’ll probably come back to these 2 things a lot because I’m not good at them.)

@29:00 – Examples of “Your Own Version of Fun” from Tucker and Nils

Tucker: “Fuck it. I don’t care. I’m going to have fun anyways.”
Nils tells some funny stories of his past first dates.

I think my problem is that I don’t know how to have fun like this on dates. This is sad but I have to spend some time figuring out what my version of fun is or how to have fun on dates in my own way and experimenting with different games or ways to have fun. Because if I’m laughing and having fun and a girl is not, I would feel like a jackass I think.

If you can have fun on a date, you are automatically in the top 10% of dates she’s been on.

That might mean a change of venue for some of these dates.
Figure out what your thing is. Test different shit!

@34:00 – Hitting paddle-boarders, this was funny.

Last Week’s Goals

  • Reframe the first date and the conversation. I still suck at this.
  • Figure out what’s interesting about her. I did for 1 date but we didn’t talk about it here.
  • Share more things, be a little vulnerable, piece by piece. Did this on 1 date but didn’t talk about it on podcast.
  • Read The Charisma Myth. Done.
  • Go on more Tinder dates. Went on 2 dates this week.
  • Start meditating, 5 minutes a day (Tucker later recommended 10% Happier by Dan Harris). I haven’t done this yet.
  • Have a growth mindset, set reminders to think of yourself as a work in progress instead of a failure. Still need to work on this.

Next Week’s Goals

  • Reframe your thoughts about dates. Get rid of ineffective ideas/thoughts and replace with ones above. Remind yourself before going out.
  • Read Choke by Sian Beilock
  • Two things to do on next date: (1) What can I find out interesting about her? and
    (2)How can I have fun on this date? (I don’t know but will have to figure something out)
  • Keep going on more Tinder dates
  • Start meditating, 5 minutes a day (Tucker recommended 10% Happier by Dan Harris)
  • Have a growth mindset, set reminders to think of yourself as a work in progress instead of a failure

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