23rd of February 2015

Helping Joe, Episode 3


In week 3 of Helping Joe, Tucker and Charlie talk about two of Joe’s Tinder dates and break down what went wrong and why. They go over his mistakes, including one critical but hilarious error on a first date that blew any chance he had with a cute Mexican girl. They also talk about improv, why it’s awesome, and how most guys don’t get enough “reps” in real life. They wrap up with a bit about his testosterone test results, the importance of social relationships, and how they have a huge impact on your health and hormones.


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Joe’s Thoughts and Takeaways From This Episode:

Hey this is a running commentary of random thoughts, notes, and takeaways I had during or after this episode. – Joe


  • I made a critical but hilarious mistake on one first date. It was obvious to Charlie and Tucker what happened, but I was oblivious to it at the time.
  • "Joe is exceedingly average. This is a normal dude, and most dudes out there are doing the same sorts of [stupid] things… totally oblivious. And girls are like, ‘What the fuck is going on?’”
  • There could be a million reasons why she doesn't show up or cancels a date, don't take it personally.
  • With each date, you get more experience and you get it really cheap. You will be better off for next time. Just keep showing up. You will get better. 
  • The first thing to do on the first date is make her feel comfortable and safe. Just do what’s normal, simple, and easy at the beginning. 
  • Most guys don’t know how to act natural because they don’t get enough reps.
  • The number and strength of relationships has huge health implications, even for things like testosterone.

@0:00 – Tinder date 2 = no show

Could be a million reasons why. She had better plans, she sucks, she had a better date, or maybe I was too eager by texting “see you tomorrow.” I didn’t think so but maybe it comes off bad. Texting “Are we still on for tomorrow” is better than “See you tomorrow”

Charlie and Tucker’s feedback was that texting her the day before is a little eager. I was just doing it to be nice I guess. Didn’t know that this was a desperate move.

The advice here is also a callback to other episodes: women get a lot more attention and requests and dates on Tinder than guys AND even when they know you well and have been dating you they still may go dark because they are afraid of being honest about rejecting you or breaking up because of past awful experiences with other guys. Not your fault, but that may be the case.

Next time, just text her the day of the date: “Hey are we still on for time+place?”

@5:30 – See! I’m kind of funny.

Tinder date 3 = it didn’t go well but some positives:

@6:30 – I misspoke again here and they just run with it. This was funny.

@7:43 – “the prodcast” what? Surprised they didn’t catch that.

@9:00 – Why the date sucked or didn’t go well. How to tell if she doesn’t like you.

@10:30 – No woman shows up uninterested.

I was grasping for a reason why it went bad here. It was nonsense. Tucker corrects me.

If she takes time to go out with you, she’s interested.

@12:15 – “His expression looks like he just pooped on the rug.”

Again, the old man called the shit ‘poop’.

@13:00 – Tucker’s first guess on why this didn’t go well.

My profile (pics and bio) may be too out there, too outgoing, like I’m an entertainer. I’m more introverted than that. I might see more of this in the future where girls come in and expect this goofy guy because of my profile, but that’s not me. I’m not as fun as my profile. At least, not on the first date, but maybe once I get to know her better.

@15:30 – You get better with each date.

@18:00 – Doing an emotional check-in to flip it.

@18:45 – Great piece of advice from Tucker

“That’s why this is great. Now you have this experience and you got it for really cheap… You will be better off for next time. This is how you get better… really fantastic after the date you identified the issues and what happened, next time you are going to identify them in the moment, and then you start to react to them in the moment and you get good.”

@21:15 – So I was ready to stop talking about this date here and move on. I said what I wanted to say and thought that was it. But no they wanted to dig in, and it was a good thing they did because I learned where I made a critical mistake that I was oblivious to but ruined the date.

@24:00 – “Wait why were you outside?” I don’t know. “Wait, what the hell is going on?” (It was winter in Austin, 40 degree weather that night.)

The date started outside because the inside was a little crowded and I wanted to make sure she saw me. There were other people sitting outside so I thought it was cool. I didn’t even mention this in first run through. No idea that this might have fucked up the date. I just skipped over these details

“Joe is not a retard or mentally challenged. In fact, Joe is exceedingly average. This is a normal dude, and most dudes out there are doing the same sorts of things… totally oblivious. And girls are like, ‘What the fuck is going on?’” – Tucker This was funny and true.

@27:00 – Important bit from Charlie about being hyper-rational and not emotional, not being in the moment, not feeling the environment, and missing big things, like the fucking temperature.

This is totally something I have to work on. I over-think things and miss obvious stuff sometimes like the god damn weather. It’s too cold just go inside, stupid.

@28:30 – This is a good thing… Hyper rational dude retardation is easily fixable.

@30:30 – “The master has failed more times than the beginner has even tried.” – Charlie

@31:45 – The first thing you do in the first few minutes of the first date.

Make her feel comfortable and safe. At the beginning, just do what’s normal and simple and easy at the beginning in the first 15 minutes. Sitting outside in the cold is not normal, it is uncomfortable.

@35:30 – The point of the first Tinder date, she wants to make sure you’re not a fucking weirdo. That’s it. Remember she doesn’t know you and it’s a blind date.

@36:00 – I’m a slow burner. The more girls get to know me, the more they like me.

This was a nice compliment from Tucker, and I think he’s right.

@40:30 – Taking goofy photos with Charlie for Tinder.

His friends gave him some feedback on my photos.

@42:00 – Sign up for Sports and Social in Austin OR Improv classes

Charlie says improv was one of the best things he’s ever done in his life.

43:30 – Guys don’t know how to act natural because they don’t get enough reps.

They talk a lot about improv and why it’s a great thing to do for social skills.

Charlie invites me to one of his shows. We talk about this on next episode.

@47:15 – Get enough reps and it’s not a big deal any more.

@48:00 – My testosterone test

I ramble here. I was just so excited that it was so easy. I thought it would be a pain in the ass to get a blood test. It was the easiest medical thing I’ve done. I was in and out in 5 minutes. My T test results were low.

@50:00 – The book they talk about here is called The Power of Clan

The number and strength of relationships has huge health implications, even for things like testosterone. Hugely important for your well-being, even more so than exercise.

@53:00 – I got defensive here because they were basically saying I don’t have any friends, which might be true.

Also a really important point here: Hormones follow behavior.
Last Week’s Goals

  • Make more small talk on 1st dates, ask simple questions (only 5 minutes) … I did but the girl I was with had lost interested before small talk. 
  • Don’t talk about Tinder in the first hour of a Tinder date … Success! I did not talk about Tinder. 
  • Go out and conquer (go out on more dates). 
  • I set up 2 more dates this week. 1 canceled. The other was cold and wanted to leave.

  • Get a blood test for testosterone. I got a blood test. It was super easy. My T level was low ~400 something. 

This Week’s Goals

  • Keep going on Tinder dates.
  • First goal of first date: make her comfortable, be normal.
  • Record next date for Tucker and Charlie to listen to and give feedback. Won’t play on the podcast.
  • Sign up for 1 Sports and Social OR improv class
  • Talk to Veronica, Tucker’s wife who’s a nurse practitioner, and figure out what you’re doing wrong, make a plan.
  • Long-term, find situations and mating markets where you are more confident, more extroverted, and good things about you come out quicker. Short-term don’t get in your own way, do your best to make a good first impression. 

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