9th of February 2015

Helping Joe, Episode 1


This is a new podcast segment called “Helping Joe” where we take a regular Mating Grounds listener and work through his problems with meeting and dating women. In the first episode of this series, Tucker and Charlie talk about Joe’s problems and why he’s not doing well with women. They dive into how and where to meet women, understanding attractive women, and how to set up a great Tinder profile, including many ideas for funny photos and an interesting bio.


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Joe’s Thoughts and Takeaways From This Episode:

Hey this is a running commentary of random thoughts, notes, and takeaways I had during or after this episode. – Joe


  • The Numbers Game advice is almost the worst. The only thing worse is doing nothing.
  • Women get 100X more messages, calls, and requests for their time than men do. Don’t take it personal if she doesn’t get back to you.
  • The right way to follow-up with a woman and set a date.
  • By not sending a dick pick and talking to her like a human being, you are in the top 10% of guys.
  • Funny ideas for Tinder / online dating photos
  • Why data (like the OKCupid blog) is misleading if you misunderstand the context
  • Writing a good Tinder bio
  • How to message women on Tinder and set up a quick easy date

@3:00 – My background, where I’m coming from

I was nervous being on the podcast for the first time, and I just ran through this skipping a lot of awful stories that have been burned into my brain. Tucker and Charlie probably would have found these hilarious.

@8:00 – My mating goal = medium term relationships

Why did I choose medium-term?

Well… one-night stands (short-term) were fun but I usually regretted them. It was weird having sex with someone I didn’t even know. I always wanted to leave immediately after it was over. Sometimes I put in a lot of hours just to get laid that night, the sex usually wasn’t that good, and I would think to myself, “What the fuck. I should have just gone home, jerked off, and gone to sleep. Why did I waste all this time, get drunk, to do this? I don’t even like this girl.”

Also I can’t honestly say I want 1 committed relationship because I don’t know what that looks like for me. And I don’t want to commit long-term or be exclusive because I want to get better at dating and meeting new women. I’m also in my 20s and just want to explore new things + new women.

@9:30 – The Numbers Game is the worst

Tucker was right here. I have spent way too much time reading pua nonsense.

The Number’s Game idea was a step up from where I was at (doing nothing) but it’s still awful advice. Tucker more thoroughly explained why in the Bad Advice podcast episode (released same week as this Helping Joe episode)

Tucker also said some nice things about me here. And he’s right, there are good things about me but like a lot of guys listening to this, I just haven’t put the pieces together or I’m not signaling these things or I’m not looking in the right markets.

@17:30 – How I met women in the past

I do suck. This is true but I never just “hoped and prayed” like Tucker said.

I just blew opportunities left and right, hesitated, psyched myself out, and didn’t practice even in small or low risk ways. And I used “gentlemanly” websites as a distraction or release from the sad reality that I wasn’t getting laid or interacting at all with attractive women.

@27:30 – Organic dating, sports + social

I wish Charlie went more into this here because I still don’t know specifically what he’s talking about. I understand the concept of doing fun things with people, talking with them, making connections. But I can’t picture in my head how that leads to dating more women. Probably because I’ve never done it well. Or if I did, it was just luck, I didn’t know what I was doing. And I suck at having fun at bars. I’m an introvert not very gregarious and I hate talking over loud shitty music when I first meet a hot chick.

@30:00 – “How do you get dates?” Tucker asks

My response should have been, “I don’t get dates, you jackass, that’s why I’m here!”

The story I talked about here was over a year ago. Not good.

@33:45 – Inward VS Outward Anger

Tucker said something about turning my anger inward when something bad happens (girl rejects me or flakes or whatever). And he’s right. I totally default to hating on myself rather than hating on others unless I know I’m in the right. For example, if something shitty happens and there’s an information gap (when I don’t know what, where, or how it went wrong), I’m 10x more likely to fill that gap with “I suck for these reasons” go inward, instead of “they just suck” and go outward.

@34:30 – Understanding a Woman’s Perspective

Women get 100X more messages, texts, calls, and requests for their time than men do.

I know this is true but I haven’t internalized it probably because I haven’t seen it firsthand. Charlie had a good example of a friend of his who is above average but not crazy attractive and got 100+ messages on OkCupid in a week.

But I think if a girl “flakes” or cancels or just stops responding, it’s still going to be annoying.

@38:00 – How to follow-up with a woman and set a date.

Tucker gave on example of how to do this well. Wording doesn’t need to be exact:

“If you are sensitive about rejection it’s easy to perceive that as a blow off or a flake, but the best thing to do is to respond to her:
‘Hey I loved our conversation the other night, I would like to get together with you, do you have time over the next 2 weeks. If so, tell me when and we’ll set it up. If not, no worries I won’t keep bothering you.’”

@42:00 – Great advice from Tucker

“You are the average of the last 500 guys who have hit on her. She’s got the extremes in her mind, especially the negative extremes. Not your fault, but that’s what you are walking into… You pay the price of someone else’s bullshit.” Remember it’s not about you!

By not sending a dick pick and talking to her like a human being, you are in the top 10% of guys.

@44:30 – Charlie’s story about a girl who just stopped talking to him after dating for 2 months.

Charlie’s a lot better at thinking about this stuff than I am. I probably would have gotten depressed (why do I suck) then just ignored her or found distractions, not even think about it, maybe delete her number.  He handled this in a great way and they are still friends.

@51:00 – Tinder or online dating photos

We came up with a bunch of ideas for this. Charlie and Tucker were funny with stuff they came up with. Any success I have with this will probably be due to taking these kinds of photos.

@55:00 – Why data is misleading if you misunderstand the context

Tucker made sense when he explained this example of how numbers aren’t everything, but I doubt I could figure this out on my own unless I knew the subject (context surround the data) really well. Looking at data or a number that points to something you should or should not do is an easy but cheap way to learn. There’s a bunch of books I want to read about this some day, How to Lie with Statistics and Bad Science are 2 of them. I have like 500 books in different reading lists. Does anyone else do this?

@58:00 – Signaling who you are and what social group you belong to.

This is super fucking interesting but I’m still not sure what or how I should signal, especially with clothes.

I think this is one of the keys to mating and something most guys just don’t even think about. I know that I rarely consciously think about this. I just pick out a random shirt, put on tennis shoes and just walk out the door. I need to get better at considering what do these clothes, this conversation (stories, questions), activities (what I do to relax or have fun), or job I have signal about me as a potential mate.

How do I get feedback about the signals I am putting out there? Would be weird to straight up ask a chick, “Hey what does this shirt [could be anything though] signal about me? What do you think about me because I do X or Y thing?”

@1:04:00 – More Tinder photo ideas, some of these are really great

@1:13:00 – How counter signaling works

I can’t even figure out normal signaling. I doubt I can pull this off without their help. Tucker gives a good example here of how this works.

@1:17:00 – Writing your bio, Tinder bio ideas

I’ve done some dope shit and we came up with a great bio I think. Unfortunately I don’t think anybody reads bios on Tinder.

@1:18:00 – I’m rambling here … wtf am I talking about?

@1:18:45 – “A lot of girls don’t go bar hopping. That’s not going to be a problem. In fact, it’s even a selling point for you.” – Tucker

I should have asked, why is it a selling point? What do most girls do on weekends if they don’t go to bars?

@1:21:00 – “Lead with height [if you’re tall], something every girl wants to know. The first thing they check on your OKCupid profile, scroll down, what is your height.” – Charlie

I knew it was important but I didn’t know it was so important that I could lead with it because I’m 6 ft tall.

@1:22:00 – How to message women on Tinder and set up a quick easy date

If you want to meet them in real life, the shorter message is the way to go. Set up a date!

“Coffee?”  Or  “Wine or margaritas?”        when they respond with A or B, then you respond: “Cool, Thursday at 8pm at [place]?” and go from there.


My goals at the end were to start a Tinder profile, start messaging girls, and sign up for 1 social group by next week. 

– Joe

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