30th of March 2015

Helping Joe, Episode 8


This episode is a continuation of Episode 7. Tucker, Charlie, and Joe try to regroup and talk about Joe’s other dates that he went on, but they get right back to emotional issues that caused him to completely lose confidence in himself on a different date. The reason for this is absolutely ridiculous. You will laugh when listening to it.

Joe thought this girl was out of his league and rejected himself even though she was into him. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from his mistake about attraction, understanding women, and giving yourself the chance to succeed.


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Joe’s Thoughts and Takeaways From This Episode:

Hey this is a running commentary of random thoughts, notes, and takeaways I had during or after this episode. – Joe


  • The signals a girl gives when she is without doubt interested in you
  • Why material things (nice cars) don’t matter that much to women
  • Why she might not really be out of your league: How not to psyche yourself out
  • Don’t ever rejection yourself.
  • And Bishop makes his first appearance on the podcast.

@Beginning – Charlie is right here. The last episode was tough.

This is a hilarious way to open the show. Great reference to The Sopranos

Tucker says how we aren’t going to talk about my emotional problems in this episode…
He was wrong. We recorded this right after that episode so I felt hungover almost. Or like I just puked 10 minutes ago, or like Charlie referenced, took a big shit. I was off for this episode.

@1:30 – Tinder date 5

I’m kind of losing track of dates but I’m pretty sure this was date #5 from Tinder.

Felt like job interview, my fault. I kept asking her questions instead of having a conversation.

What was most interesting thing about her?
That she’s traveled to all these places, has been to cool places. Great story about a family trip to Egypt. She’s taking salsa classes.

I don’t remember having much fun on this date though 🙁

I was intimidated (How can I ever date this girl?)… She was younger than me and smarter than me, had a better job (financially speaking, she probably doesn’t have as much fun at work, but makes a lot more money). She’s a mini-expert on everything (because of her job). The only edge I had was maybe I traveled or know more about the world than she does. But nope she has been more places than I have and instead of being excited and intrigued…
I was like oh shit she’s better than in all these ways, how can I ever date this chick. I’m not on her level.

But she was still into me! How do I know this:

  • She asked questions about me.
  • Laughed at a few of my jokes.
  • She got a drink with me after gelato.
  • She texted her friend she would be late to stay out with me for a little more time.
  • She asked me out to Carnival Samba party.
  • She opened up her arms to give me a hug at the end of the date.
  • And She gave me her number (I didn’t even ask for it because I thought this wasn’t going to work out) and she set up a 2nd date. Even with that I still rejected myself instead letting her make that decision. I took myself out of the game for no good reason.

@2:30 – “Well I guess we are going to have another discussion about emotions…”

This could be a different problem, but they are related. This could also be Imposter Syndrome: I’m not good enough, I’m going to get found out.

“Why didn’t you let her make the decision that she’s better than you?” Why did you make it for her?

I don’t know. I thought of this and asked myself the same question during the date. Why the fuck am I doing this. Let her say no or reject me instead of just rejecting myself … wtf … Probably part of a deeper emotional problem that this is my reaction instead of being delighted that she is doing shit and a smart girl, I was down because I thought I was out of her league.

It’s almost arrogant in a way, “Oh trust me I know more about you and what you want than you do so I’m just going to say no for you right now. Trust me, I suck.”

@4:30 – “I wish we could look at a program of Joe’s mind and see all these scripts to work on… just press delete.”

This was funny but he’s right. There’s so many wrong unconscious thoughts that automatically pop up in these situations. Doing this podcast is helping me deal with those but it’s a work in progress.

@5:30 – “That’s not even that nice of a car!”

It doesn’t matter, at least in my head, it was an above average car, I don’t even have a car. How can I date this chick and take her out?

We talk about how signals of material wealth. Tucker explained that it doesn’t matter. Women care about a lot of other things before material things. No one wants to marry a millionaire who’s not interesting or fun or sucks. And I think they are right but I still feel insecure about it.

@8:30 – “Why not be excited about all these things, instead of intimidated or down?”

Charlie’s right. There were a lot of cool things about her but I just felt out of her league instead of more attracted or into her. This is an ineffective, worthless mindset.

@9:00 – Bishop, Tucker’s son enters the room

This is probably awful to listen to but we had to lighten the mood somehow and have more fun after the last episode and seeing that this episode was probably headed in the same direction.

@10:30 – You weren’t into her because you felt like she was out of your league

This was a good call by Tucker. I missed it and just thought there was no chemistry but I just disengaged when I started thinking she was better than me, out of my league.

@12:00 – Women: “I don’t know why he wasn’t into me.”

Guys who think they are “out of her league” automatically disengage, leaving the woman wondering, “I don’t know why he wasn’t into me.”

Just because you don’t own a few things or aren’t better at her in every way, doesn’t mean you can’t still be very attractive to her. I know this yet I just ignored it in the moment and made the decision for her instead seeing how things played out.

Tucker & Charlie’s advice:
If she really is out of your league, she will find someone better BUT:
1) Let her make that decision!
2) Understand that you don’t calibrate yourself that well. You think you’re a 6 but she might think that you’re an 8.

“You especially don’t calibrate yourself well. You have a much lower opinion of yourself than you are in reality.” – Tucker

Tucker probably has a higher opinion of me than I do of myself.

@15:00 – “You don’t understand everything you bring to the relationship” – Tucker

Tucker tells a story about his female doctor friend who likes to date blue-collar guys but many of those guys feel intimidated by her intelligence. But she doesn’t care.

“You don’t know what she is looking for. She could be looking for the exact traits that you have. Why don’t you let her determine that before you cut it off without giving it a shot.”

“You don’t know what she values. You bring things to the table.” – Tucker

“And she just might have gotten out of 2 bad relationships and you look like a god [in comparison].” – Charlie

This is painful to listen to after the fact because I really blew a good opportunity.

@18:30 – When this is an issue, how to bring it up, and deal with it together

This is great advice from Tucker on how to be honest about things you don’t have.

“I like you a lot, but there are some things I need to tell you about myself…” This is hilarious, setting her up so she freaks out like you have STDs or something and then you just say “I don’t have a car right now.”

@21:00 – Dr. Heather Berlin (from a past episode) married a white rapper

This guy was not as accomplished as her, not as smart academically as her, but he still had all these other attractive traits and they got married. You don’t know what the fuck women want and are into or looking for.

“Could you imagine the 10th man on the Lakers saying, ‘I’m not good enough to start so I’m not going to be in the league.’ Why are you cutting yourself?” – Tucker

@23:00 – She asked me out on a 2nd date and gave me her #

I already thought I was out of her league at that point, I didn’t ask for her number, she just gave me it.

@24:30 – These all come from the same core emotional issues

I still don’t know how where to begin or how to start solving these issues or getting over this shit.

First figure out what it is. Don’t have to go into therapy.

This is something I hope we can explore in future episodes. Even though, it might be boring and it’s not fun, it’s what I need and probably what a lot of guys need. But I have no idea where to start (recognize it first, ok say I recognize it, then what, my leg is broken, limping around here, how the fuck do i fix it?). And the more I look at girls I have gone out with, the more I see and agree, yea I’m just going through the motions, trying to ask the right questions and make the right move instead of being in the moment and connecting with her.

Charlie me asks a question here. I answer then he moves onto something else. Why did he ask me this? I’m thinking there was something here that would have taken a while to talk about so they decided to skip it and go into the next date.

@26:00 – Tinder Date 6

Went to Gelato, again… This place is not working out, it’s too crowded, cold, not comfortable. I should have figured this out in Episode 2. It’s convenient for me because it’s close but not for dates.

Charlie reads our text exchange.

This is so uncomfortable, Charlie reading my goofy texts to everyone. Although it’s a good way to learn if I do text something dumb. And it’s kinda funny.

@This audio cut off here 🙁 … What you missed:

We talked a little bit about this date on episode 10. There’s not a whole lot to say. I found out a lot interesting things about her. I had a little fun but was mostly in my head and anxious.

One joke I made was after she said that I was the only guy she had met in-person Tinder, I said “So I feel like I should a prize or something.” Her: “Yea you probably should.” Me: “Yea you should take me out to dinner.” She laughed.

I thought she was hot and she was a good person smart girl but we didn’t connect and she just wasn’t that into me. Could be for a bunch of reasons, maybe I wasn’t as attractive in person, maybe the gelato place is just not comfortable, we’re different people, she’s too shy, I’m too weird or still anxious in the beginning. I don’t know why there wasn’t chemistry.

Tucker’s speed dating advice (the notes I took)

  • Have energy! Don’t be boring, Don’t ask boring questions (Where are you from, what do you do etc.)
  • Confidence of Tucker Max. How would be walk in?
  • Sit next to ugly girl (warm up with her)
  • ASK a question about them… I just moved here, I don’t know Austin that well, what are 3 of your favorite things to do in Austin.
  • The point is to find out if there’s chemistry, is the other person attractive
  • Mating market (@41:00 to the end)
  • Engage + be open + warm
  • Have fun / be different
  • 1-3 questions that draw out interesting things about her

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