9th of November 2015

Helping Joe, Episode 38


In this episode of Helping Joe, Charlie and Nils dive back into Joe’s list of companies he thinks that he could work for. He used the Target part of Charlie’s Land A Job You Love course to do this.

They tell him how to fix his messed up mindset, including how to measure his own economic value to companies that are hiring, so he can get out of his own way and land a great job. They end the episode talking about a new girl that he met at improv.


You can click here (right click, then click save as) to download the episode directly.

This episode is sponsored by Land A Job You Love, a course developed by our own Charlie Hoehn about how to work with great entrepreneurs and startups. Click on the link to receive a big discount on the course as a listener of the podcast.


This episode is also sponsored by Athletic Greens, the best whole foods green supplement out there, go to to get 50% off your first order.


Joe’s Thoughts and Takeaways From This Episode:

Hey this is a running commentary of random thoughts, notes, and takeaways I had during or after this episode. – Joe

@Beginning – I went spinning

I went to the one near UT campus so I think there were just college students.

“We didn’t bring up spinning as a way to meet girls. It just so happens that meeting girls is a great byproduct of a potential job that hits a number of the things that you’re looking for…. They fucking love their instructors.” – Nils

“The idea behind this is that it’s A) a good idea and B) look at how broad the spectrum of opportunities could be if you open up. This fits your criteria. There are probably many other jobs that you had never thought about that also fit your criteria (being in a group, being active, going to the same place).” – Nils

HOW DO I FIND THOSE JOBS?! I don’t feel like I’m doing this enough right now.

For me it’s kind of this problem of you don’t know what you don’t know. Where do I even start looking for these kinds of jobs and opportunities? How do I broad my range or search to discover them? Do I talk to a career counselor? Not a HS or college one but maybe a legit person who can identify these jobs.

“It’s helpful to talk to more than one person about this stuff, to bounce ideas off of around people who know you. We tend to lie to ourselves about what we’re good at or what we want. What you are doing is how you find those opportunities.” – Charlie

Yea I don’t do this enough, talking to other people about work/career stuff and what they think I’m good at or not good at. Probably because 1) I don’t want to open up and put myself in a vulnerable position of not knowing what the fuck I’m doing AND 2) I don’t really trust other people outside of the Tucker, Charlie, and Nils to give me advice or help me with this stuff. I feel like these guys have worked with me and they know me.

AND I don’t feel like I’m doing enough. I should be doing more but I’m not.

Maybe I should hit up old bosses but that would be a weird discussion.

I have to find a way to say this or to reach out to people without looking helpless, maybe “Hey here’s my problem, here’s what I’m doing to solve it, do you think you could help me with this piece of it.”

“It’s easier to start with the sectors that interest you but that will not be the best way to find something that you connect with.” – Nils

@9:00 – Target part of Charlie’s course

Whole Foods

@12:00 – “Why is their P&L sheet your primary concern?”

Because I need to get paid! And that’s something in the past that I have ignored.

Looking them up on LinkedIn and Twitter: “Anything online is fair game. It’s not stalking. You are just trying to see if your personality meshes with theirs.” – Charlie

I’ve talked about this before I think but I chased something exciting or meaningful or cool and didn’t worry about the money which bit me in the ass later when I got fired for no reason or never got paid.

@16:00 – Nils calls me out here

He’s really intuitive and good at reading me and figuring out the underlying intention or thoughts behind what I’m doing. The way I was talking about this stuff, it was clear that I didn’t put a ton of work into it and he wanted to know why not.

“We are trying to help you get into a position and achieve career goals that will help you feel good about your life… If you don’t want the 80K and all this stuff … these goals are not just going to happen.” – Nils

We talk about Mating Grounds and how it’s fun thing to work on but I don’t make any money. And to be honest, I feel bad that I haven’t been able to get more done and build out more cool stuff here. I think reasons why that is is I get too in my own head and I mostly work online at home. It’s not a good fit for me.

“If you don’t have a goal, you are wishing on a star that it happens… People will pay you what you’re willing to take… You need to be directed in a specific trajectory. ” – Nils

@23:00 – Feeling overwhelmed

This was kinda funny because I do feel overwhelmed or like I don’t get enough stuff done most of the time, but I feel guilty admitting that because I’m not doing that much. I don’t have that much going on. Why should I be overwhelmed?

“A lot of people can shoulder a lot and some people can’t shoulder very much.” – Nils

I don’t want to be one of those people who can’t shoulder very much. I don’t want to be holding everyone else up or not pulling my own weight which is how I feel around here (with Mating Grounds) sometimes because I don’t get as much done as I want to.

Ideal situation: I want to be with a tribe. And get paid more. MG is not where I should be longterm.

“It’s a matter of prioritizing your own goals, well-being, and plan in finding your own career goals. I don’t want you to work here if you’re not making dick. “

“Digital work is not for you right now because you get stuck in your own head.”
– Nils

I think most of the jobs I’m going after will be digital jobs but I don’t know with out getting in there and finding out. I think like Nils has said before if I have a quantifiable targets or measurements in my progress and work goals, and they were super clear and I knew my fucking priorities, I could do it.

@30:00 – Many companies would want someone like you in sales

“You pulled sponsorships for Mating Grounds. We have no business getting sponsors if you looked at how we run this clown car… You booked those, nobody else did.“

This was funny and only a little true.

“I would hire you for my course to do sales.” – Charlie

This was surprising and actually a pretty big, cool endorsement 

“There are so many opportunities for companies. They need sales to live. You have been that guy.” – Charlie

I don’t know why I feel liking I’m faking it or like I’m not good enough or can’t do sales when it’s pretty obvious I have done it before and I have a lot of room to get better at it. I think I have a lot of imposter syndrome stuff here. Like if I got an 80K sales job tomorrow, I would be like, “Fuck I can’t do this. I’m not ready to do this.”

@31:30 – How to find sales jobs at startups or startups in your city

Go to a hub and have a conversation with somebody. They can tell you

Look at the Austin Chamber of Commerce

“Their job is to have a giant list of people commercing in their city. They are the representation of the business interests in the town.” – Nils

“Startups are generally between 0 and $1 million. They don’t have the funds to pay you what you want to get paid. Some do [but most don’t].” – Charlie

Yea I’ve always been drawn to startups and that scene because innovation is exciting and it’s cool and I don’t know. It seems like fun to be working on something growing and different or whatever.

“At this point for you, it doesn’t even matter what sector they are in. The first filter has to be your skillset currently and the things that you need to be content in your job, then you can play around with which sectors you want to prioritize and then go from there.” – Nils

This was a huge point and something I have largely focused on in every job search. I’ve always looked to sector or industry instead of skill or the opportunity. To be honest, work is work and it might not matter which sector you are in if you’re doing the same job. I would get more meaning out of working in certain sectors (like education) and others might have more opportunities or more growth potential (anything STEM), but those aren’t my goals right now. The goal is to get paid and live a good life. Once I hit that goal, then I’ll be in a place where I can look different sectors and choose where I want to go.

“You have a suite of skills that is desirable. You just have to not forget that you have them and you need to own that you are good at those things and put them in a place where people can see them and you can show them that you’ve done this stuff. Tell them what you want to do for them, what they need, and see where the chips fall.”
– Nils

“If you had that mindset, you could start doing this on Monday.” – Nils

“The next steps are figuring out how to approach them from a place of value and communicating that to them so it’s a no brainer for them to hire you.” – Charlie

“This is my history, this is what I can do for you, how can I make this work. He’s right. You can be doing this next week.” – Charlie

@37:00 – How can we get you to do this

This was the wrong question to ask and I think they were being soft or letting me off the hook here for not doing what I said I would and what I said I wanted.

“You have to want to be happy, Joe” – Nils

“It feels like a job or painful to you. This is something that will help you be happy.”
– Charlie

“We’re telling you to mine for gold. We’re showing we’re the gold is. You just have to dig.” – Nils

This was pretty funny but I think on some deeper level I don’t think the gold is really there or that I can get it or that I deserve it. And as a result, I’m not putting as much into this as I could.

@39:00 – I don’t think I deserve this

And I hate this feeling or these thoughts because they are counter-productive and don’t make sense when you look what I’ve done or what I know I can do. But theyre there.

“This is not about logic, it’s emotion you’re struggling with.”

@41:00 – How to reframe your value into economic value

I’m glad Nils did this. This was really smart. And I should post these # on the background of my computer.

“They are getting the better end of the deal [financially or economically] and you are still making 50,000 dollars, if you can think about it that way, it can help you strip away that self-defeating limitations.” – Nils

With Enstitute I can’t remember what I was paid, but I think it was $12,000 to $20,000 over 1.5 years. I had other jobs to make it in NYC but it really wasn’t that much. The most they paid me was $2,200 a month for 4-6 months. In one summer I was the lead or manager for a project that brought in over $50,000. And that’s 1 summer + $3,000 comp’ed ticket to CGI America.

“If we look at Enstitute as the investor, and you as the startup, they got a 6-10x return on you.” – Nils

“Take that calculus and apply it to a job in the real world right now… You can create 10x value on the money you are asking to be paid… It’s not about deserving. It’s about earning it because you carry your weight. You get the money you want and they make money off of your labor… It is an exchange of value… That’s you.” – Nils

@50:00 – It’s important to pick the right opportunity

“Even if they have an $80,000 job but it’s a freelance gig and you telecommute, you’ll be fucked. Make sure they have a physical space that they work at everyday.” – Nils

“These are YOUR options. YOU have power here. You have VALUE.” – Charlie

6-10x return that’s me, that’s who I’ve been, and that’s what I can do again and I need to start acting like it.

@53:00 – “People are fucking stupid”

I’m still trying to find out why they let me go. What I did that turned them off and made them say NO to me sticking around or moving up. Probably that I wasn’t a good manager in that summer bootcamp job and I got burnt out but I still pulled it off, we did great and brought in a ton of money.

“Tucker is one of the smartest people you’ll ever meet. Until about 2 years ago, he was emotionally retarded. There’s different kinds of intelligence.” – Nils

“You’re giving them the benefit of the doubt at every step and discounting your value at every step… Your termination from that place had nothing to do with you and everything to do with you… We know that because they are gone.” – Nils

@56:00 – Next steps

“You have a strong enough history and strong enough skills that are universally desired that you can go in and pitch them.” – Charlie

@58:00 – Mindset stuff

I started reading a really short simple book called Love Yourself Like Your Life Depends on it.

“It’s hard to love yourself.” – Charlie

I don’t know why I have this weird feminine or weak feeling when I practice saying I love myself. Maybe it’s how or where I grew up, maybe I’m just so used to hating on myself that doing the opposite of that just feels funny, maybe I threw out the baby with the bathwater here because I hate most spiritual self-help books. This is a good book and a simple message but I still had this uncomfortable resistance to it.

But that’s also part of the book, the point is to do it even if you don’t believe. Just keep saying it over and over and over again.

“Now you know why coal miners kill themselves.” – Nils
Or why men kill themselves way more than women.

“There’s nothing more masculine than emotional strength. There’s nothing feminine about being emotionally vulnerable and strong.” – Nils

Yea I don’t if I agree with that. I would say being emotionally resilient and tough is masculine, being able to handle and take on and deal with emotional things. But I still have problems being vulnerable without looking like a bitch. Maybe I need to go back and relisten to Episode 12 or re-read Daring Greatly here.

@1:01:00 – 5 Minute Journal entries

With this, I tried to look at everything shitty going on that day and find the positive spin on it…. I couldn’t walk because my legs hurt -> at least I have 2 legs

@1:03:00 – Girl at improv

I met this girl, super cute, she seems into me but I’m like “Why does she like me?”

“You’re giving her a short [chance] because those girls never paid attention to you when you were in High School.” – Nils

Yea I think the hit the nail on the head here. That’s probably why I immediately was like NO even though she was cute and playful.

“One of the most high maintenance LOOKING women I’ve ever dated has been the most laid back and low maintenance. Let people delight and surprise you before you make that leap.” – Charlie

@1:06:00 – When you ask “why is she into me?” answer it and WRITE IT DOWN

Similar to what I did in the last episode @39:00 after I ended things with HP girl. I got a lot of good things going for me.

It was cool Nils did this and I’m glad he did. I don’t do this enough really, give myself enough credit for things (my female friend even said this “You really don’t give yourself enough credit.”) or even appreciate good stuff I have going on or good traits I have. It’s easy to forget what I have and just focus on what I don’t have / want to get better at or work on. I guess that’s why the 5 minute journal is so important to keep doing. It’s a practice and if you don’t do it, it’s easy to forget this stuff.

“When you understand your value [and] understand that you deserve to be happy and successful that’s when things really start to take off and opportunities open doors.“ – Nils

I think he was saying you have to really have the goods and skills AND you have to believe that you deserve good things to come your way. Because if you don’t believe then you won’t try or go after or capitalize on what’s right in front of you, which is probably what I’ve done for most of my 20s.

“The practice helps you change the neural pathways and the mindset and the habits because right now your mindset is your biggest stumbling block, not the external opportunities.” – Nils

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