5th of October 2015

Helping Joe, Episode 33


Tucker and Charlie begin this episode of Helping Joe by talking with Joe about a college girl he had been dating who suddenly ended the relationship when he was honest with her about his mating goals. They talk about what happened and how to handle this situation in the future.

After that they dive back into Joe’s career issues where they help him recognize his fantasies and delusions and give him a reality check so he can move forward in his life. Charlie takes a more active role by giving Joe some homework from his Land A Job You Love course.


You can click here (right click, then click save as) to download the episode directly.


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Joe’s Thoughts and Takeaways From This Episode:

Hey this is a running commentary of random thoughts, notes, and takeaways I had during or after this episode. – Joe

@The Beginning

So this is the picture on the back of my Macbook Air laptop


I thought it was funny in a cute / nerdy sort of way. That kid kinda looks like me. Tucker & Charlie obviously thought it was funny but for a different reason.

“Joe’s the type of person who gives himself a nickname.”- Tucker

Haha not sure what he meant by this, but no I’m not. I’ve never given myself a nickname. I was confused by why he was making a big deal out of this, and I don’t understand the principle behind it. He doesn’t really explain here. I thought it was a silly thing to put on my laptop.

“Silly is an improvement from cool. You thought the centaur shirt looked cool.” – Tucker

I explain my thought process behind buying it and Tucker says:

“If that’s his thought process: ‘This is goofy and that is reflective of my goofy humor so I will use it to signal my goofy humor to the world.’… That’s a huge improvement, not that bad at all… He’s understanding himself enough to understand his humor and how his humor relates to other people and showing things that show that.” – Tucker

“His projection of self is aligning with his actual self whereas before he was wearing these ridiculous awful trashy clothes that he thought made him look a certain way that he wasn’t.” – Tucker

Ok so it was a goofy thing to put on my laptop but not a big deal, kind of funny. They laughed.

@5:00 – Date with a girl I’ve been seeing ended badly

Yea I felt pretty bad about this for a few days. She was really hurt and wanted nothing to do with me, even though we had a good thing going.

@9:00 – Their advice on this

“You did the right thing in all ways, shapes, forms. This is something that a lot of younger guys have a hard time understanding: Doing the right thing does not always lead to direct action you want in the short-term. Sometimes doing the right thing will suck.” – Tucker

“If you always tell the truth to women, in the long-run you will have more relationships that are going to be healthier, better and you will have the type of relationship you want. It doesn’t mean you get everything you want all the time.” – Tucker

“You don’t get to choose what other people feel (or do).” – Tucker

Tucker explains what could be going on:

1. She’s had past awful experiences where guys played her.
That’s not what happened here, but she might have ran out because she saw that coming. This is totally true. I know she had a high school boyfriend that cheated on her and she thought that relationship just meant nothing, which sucks.

2. There’s and “ick” factor of disgust.
The thought that you are with her and other women is physically and emotionally gross to her. This is why girls don’t usually ask about this.

“A lot of this is her issues. Don’t take it personally.”

The one fact that cuts through a lot of this: She is only 20 years old, and doesn’t know who she is or how to date or talk about this stuff.

“Well, of course that’s the problem!” – Tucker

@17:30 – There’s a better, more socially skilled, way to handle this:

“First you did nothing wrong. You should be proud of yourself.”

When she asks, “Are you dating anyone else,” you answer not with a yes/no but with “Is there a reason I shouldn’t be?” Reframe it to open the discussion instead of putting the focus on you. Where is her question coming from?

“I don’t even understand what position you’re in to ask this question.”

“I’ll tell you if you want to know but you probably don’t want to know. You might not like the answer.”

“You’re not having to sit under the lights, answering questions to the Gustapo.”

“She probably won’t ask this question to a guy ever again.”

@20:00 – Tucker talks about going through this, has an interesting story.

“She tried to deal with me like a college boy and real quick I was like, ‘That doesn’t work. You’re either going to play in the big leagues or you’re going to go back to little boys.’” He said this but in a nicer way.

“This is how adults date and this is how children in college date and you can do either one but you can’t do the children in college thing with me. You have to be an adult. And if you don’t want to, no problem, we don’t have to see each other. And if you do, I like you and want to see you as an adult. She got the message.” – Tucker

@24:00 – Transitioning to career stuff. Homework they gave from last time.

Tucker got pissed and rightfully so. I had 10 things but my presentation was 3 pages which it shouldn’t have been. It was supposed to be 1 page, maybe even 1/2 a page. Problem here was that I put all my nonsense internal notes underneath each of the 10 things and it wasn’t readable but Charlie still fucking read it. This was painful.

I hope this is funny for people listening to the podcast and not just massively annoying.

Here’s the list


@31:00 – Shark Tank interest, starting a business or being and entrepreneur

“No you don’t [want a business]. You just want to make lists.” – Tucker

“There are companies that specialize in making better lists.” – Charlie

I feel like I’m a wantrepreneur. I watch this show, read those books, think it’s so cool, would be fun to do this but I’ve never done it and really haven’t even tried.

“You might be right about them, maybe they are stupid, but they did something you can’t do so that means you’re probably stupid too.” – Tucker

Tucker explains the difference between being and entrepreneur and starting a business.

“An entrepreneur starts something that is some way shape or form new and risky, like they are not even sure this will work.” – Tucker

“Freelancing has gotten him no where.” – Tucker

He’s right and he’s wrong. I’ve gone to some cool places and worked with some great people as a freelancer. I’ve done solid work there. BUT I haven’t found a path or a career or really any skills, and I have little money. I also don’t see the kind of freelancing I’ve done as being entrepreneurial.

@34:00 – What Charlie did in college, great idea

He was the timekeeper for VCs that judged the pitches. He got to sit in and listen to them talk about each pitch. Very cool, great way to learn, would be a ton of fun.

@35:00 – Charlie’s idea for Austin comedy podcast

This was a great idea and would be really cool.

@38:00 – Why we did this

“This is the important part about doing this. I see this all the time with people who are like, ‘I want to do all this stuff,’ meanwhile you just told me your history and you’re totally disconnected from reality.”
– Charlie

“That’s the point Joe. That’s why we had you do this. We have to get your fantasies and delusions out of your head first.” – Tucker

@40:30 – My Evernote notes and tags

This was funny but true: “You have 5,000 Evernote notes and you don’t know anything. That’s amazing. It’s like a work of art. YOU DON’T HAVE A JOB! What are you delaying (reading them) that for.” – Tucker

Tucker is pretty much done at this point.

@42:00 – We revisit the goal/outcome of this new direction

From the last episode:

1. a full time job, in a specific place, with the same people
2. a job you enjoy
3. where you can learn new valuable skills
4. make at least 40k, with path to 60k
5. One or two bedroom place

“He has no idea what it is he wants to do. He doesn’t even know what fields he wants to go into. You’re starting from nothing here. Just like sex and dating… Here he is not as much getting in his own way. The problem is living in his own head and the fucking lists and is solvable.” – Tucker

“We told him to think about the things you want to spend your time doing and let us figure out how that can translate to specific jobs or skills.” – Tucker

“It’s amazing how much time he spends doing nothing, except making lists that no one sees and lead to no action.” – Tucker

“The worst thing he should do is work that is in his head, is freelance, or remote.” – Tucker

@52:00 – Charlie used to feel this way too

“I went through this phase for a while. I felt conflicted because I love working with my hands on stuff right in front of me, but I didn’t want to quit everything I was already doing.” – Chharlie

BUT one big caveat with this: “You had shit going for you. He’s not in the same position as you were.”
– Tucker

Yea that’s fair and true.

“He more than anyone else I know needs to be embedded in social groups. You’ve seen the difference in the last 7-8 months. That can double or triple if he has a good life group.” – Charlie

@53:30 – I talk about getting fired from a job I loved

I was really upset and disillusioned with all the work I thought I put in and everything I did and people around me when I got fired from this job.

“He doesn’t have a story for his life or describe what he does or who he is or where he fits or where he’s going…. He needs to be able to tell a story about this life that makes sense that he likes that he respects and values. But he can get it.” – Tucker

I’m not sure why or even what I was arguing with Tucker about here.

I liked the place (the company, being in NYC, the tribe), what we were working on, the meaning it gave me, the identity it gave me, and even the people. My bosses I think were good people they just cut corners by lying to people. They lied a lot to me, their students, their partners, and even to some of our investors. Not all the time, but when there were tough truths or tough decisions, sometimes they lied to make it easier in the short-term. It was really shitty what they did and I hate that they did it but I don’t hate them or think they’re awful. They’re just liars sometimes.

@59:00 – What are the costs, what will life be like if I don’t get this fixed.

-Not sustainable being a poor bastard.
-I don’t feel like a professional or even like an adult at times because I don’t have a real job or career.
-I don’t like my answer to “What do you do?”
-I don’t know where I’ll be in a year or two years from now.

“You are following shiny things right now.” – Charlie

Tucker & Charlie hate nonprofits. “It’s like a magnet for people with issues with money.” – Charlie
“That’s exactly right.” – Tucker

@1:01:00 – This was a hilarious callback to the ridiculous list I made earlier

@1:05:00 – You don’t have to start a company, most people shouldn’t.

“Most people shouldn’t start companies. The reality is there’s a price to pay for that and most people are not willing to pay that price or develop the skill.” – Tucker

“Don’t follow your passion, follow your effort” – Mark Cuban (Charlie brought this up)

“Stop fantasizing about all this shit that isn’t included in the projection [of what you want your life to be like].” – Tucker

@1:08:00 – What I’m focused on and the next steps for getting there

I have meaningful goals and outcome for my life. I’m not focused on bullshit:
“You’re focused on the right things: Meaningful work, meaningful relationships, meaningful life. Not bullshit. That’s a really good sign.” – Tucker

Next steps are to work with Charlie on this for the future because he helps people with this stuff for a living.

His proposed next step: Make a list.

I squirmed at this because I didn’t want to fuck up another list and come in here and just have them be pissed off at me.

Homework for next episode: “I’d like to see what you’ve done since you’ve graduated. I want to know what you have done and I can talk about those things.” – Charlie

“Your idea of what you’re skilled at is different from what the reality might be.” – Charlie

“My guess is that Joe, just like with women, the things he thinks he’s good at he’s terrible at and the things he is good at he doesn’t talk about at all. I bet you it’s the exact same thing with work… He clearly is intelligent and has a lot more skills than we’re thinking about or identifying as work skills because we’re not seeing them in this environment.” – Tucker

This was a really interesting thing for Tucker to say here because it foreshadows what goes down in the next episode.

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