This week in Part 2 of Episode 29, Joe talks about an interaction he had with two cute girls who wanted to take a picture with him. Tucker & Nils try to figure out why he was afraid and how to get over his fear of women and social anxiety. They also talk about how he doesn’t need to be great or even try that hard to meet women and go out on dates. And they end with Joe’s fixation on “trying to look cool” and how that screws him up in a lot of ways.
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Joe’s Thoughts and Takeaways From This Episode:
Hey this is a running commentary of random thoughts, notes, and takeaways I had during or after this episode. – Joe
@Beginning – My mate value and social anxiety (choking)
I went on date with the Persian girl and a friend of hers. We had fun but I really didn’t like the friend she was with, which is okay. We still connected well and had fun even though I thought her friend was kind of lame. They were going home together so I said goodbye at like 1AM. And that’s when I ran into these cute black women.
Or they ran into me and just asked to take pictures with me. They looked like they were going out or clubbing. I didn’t do shit. I made a bunch of excuses or rationalizations here. I don’t know why the fuck I couldn’t talk to them like normal person. I was probably too worried about saying the right thing, not screwing up, not looking stupid. And as a result I did nothing.
Yea I lost sleep over that. It was a 5/5 if we’re going by that self-loathing scale. The whole ride home I was just like wtf am I doing? why didn’t I say anything intelligible to these cute girls who were interacting me. I just sat there like a slug.
Nils said they were on a scavenger hunt. Yea that makes sense it probably was some stupid bachelorette party thing.
“You should find out [why they want to take picture with you] and it could go somewhere but not if you just sit there dumbfounded.” – Tucker
There were a million things I could have done, and I did the worst thing possible, which was nothing … literally anything.
They were probably pretty frustrated by this and they made fun of me, but I verbally beat myself up way more than they did here.
@9:00 – What were you afraid was going to happen?
They try to drill and figure out why I said nothing and just sat there, what was going on in my head, etc.
My response is, “I just choked.” I was too self-conscious, thinking of the right thing to say or what should I do, and I just didn’t do shit and looked like a retard. They probably just thought I was stoned or drunk. God damn it.
Tucker thinks I was afraid. I said that I was just clueless.
“You live your whole life afraid of everything. That’s most people. Every time we tell you the same thing. Recognize the truth, accept it, investigate it, and withhold judgment… if you don’t want to do it. You are just going to keep getting the results that you are.” – Tucker
I don’t know. Part of me thinks it’s inexperience, not much of a track record of any success in these situations.
But he’s right, I had trouble admitting that I was afraid. Probably because when I do recognize that, I never withhold judgment. I just feel shame for being a pussy or a bitch and being afraid of something I shouldn’t be afraid of. Even though they say that sexual humiliation is one of the biggest fears that ALL men have, not just me, I still feel weak for feeling that fear and then I don’t do anything and I feel worse. That might be one reason why I’m not really honest about this kind of thing.
“You’re afraid to admit that you are afraid. Why do you think that is?” – Tucker
@11:00 – Do you want to live in reality
“The way most people live their lives is that they ignore the reality in front of them because it’s painful and they structure their entire lives around avoiding painful realities. Most people do this.” – Tucker
Yea on an extreme example of this I remember watching this video of this guy in NYC who was homeless but still got laid. And he said, “how could you be homeless and not do drugs and alcohol? The misery would just overwhelm you … never become like me.” I guess that’s one of many reasons why any addiction is so hard to kick because it gives you an escape from a shitty painful reality.
But there’s no other way forward. If you want to get better, you have to figure out where you’re at first and move on from there.
@14:00 – Next week to do: All my issues
Tucker tells me to come with the top issues I want to talk about.
I already have a good idea of what these will be, but I kinda freak out because there are so god damn many things I have to work on.
Tucker says that they are all tied together. I’m skeptical. I don’t know.
They try to explain 2 issues and connect the dots for me but I’m fucking lost here.
“Your deep insecurity with women causes to 1) be submissive and nice guy to them on the surface because you’re deeply afraid of them but 2) it also creates a profound internal arrogance and chauvinism as a protective armor against them… that’s what Nils means when he says two sides of the same coin… These are basic psychological defense mechanism.” – Tucker
“And they are rooted in that singular insecurity. One is the outward and the other is the inward manifestation.” – Nils
@19:00 – Success doesn’t mean being perfect
“There’s a lot of stupid fucked up people in this world who not only find massive success but also realtionships success.” – Nils
“When I was at my worst in my life, I was surrounded with women.” – Tucker
“At his worst … they were actively pursuing him from all corners.” – Nils
“I had an endless supply of broken women … who were feeding off of my brokenness.” – Tucker
This was sad but a good point. He was fucked up and still found success with women, eventually he wanted a different goal or different version of success. Broken women just got old I guess.
But the point was… you don’t have to fix everything to have women in your life and relationships. And just because you have women doesn’t mean you are healthy.
“You are making a minimal effort to represent yourself well and a minimal effort of going to meet women and now you have 5 dates a week… [Effort-wise] you’re at like at 2.”
At first, I thought he was full of shit but he’s right. I’ve primarily been using Tinder which is the easiest thing in the world to use and that’s it and I’m going out on 2-3 dates a week with different women. There are so many other things I could be doing, so many more mating markets, I could be making a lot better effort in life in general too.
“You were at negative numbers when you were sabotaging yourself.” This was funny but true.
Tucker can be hyperbolic a lot, but I don’t think this was. Much of what I’ve done is the bare minimum, what they told me to do, and not a whole lot else.
“Meeting girls and going out on dates is not very hard if you make a basic effort on yourself and on your interactions with women… That’s where you are.” – Tucker
@25:00 – Talking about changing yourself
“Adding money doesn’t change fundamentally [who you are]. 90% of lottery winners are broke within 5 years. Most guys are the same way with women.”
“You have fought against improving yourself because everything in your life is structured around sabotaging yourself.” – Tucker
I don’t know. He said in the last episode but I think that’s bullshit or not true. I sabotage myself in a lot of ways, with women especially, but I don’t think he’s right here. I don’t do it with everything or in ever way. That’s not what my life is about.
He’s right I do fight him on this because I don’t think that it’s true. Or at least I don’t want it to be true.
@28:00 – “Trying to “look cool”
“It feels like your reflex is to worry about looking cool. When in reality you should worry about feeling good about yourself… You use the word ‘cool’ so much, it’s a reflex.”
That’s exactly what I did in the last episode @17:00 with that girl I didn’t like who was on her phone during the date.
“Your fixation on looking cool led to you feeling like shit.” – Nils
Yea he was right. I don’t why I do this. Maybe because I was never cool in high school now I worry about being cool now or I think that’s a good path to attract women, just look cool. But I don’t know what cool is and more times than not as evidenced by these podcast episodes, I end up being a clown.
“People aren’t watching you. Nobody cares. They only care about themselves.” – Nils
I know that but I can’t help feel like they do.
“The goal is to weave this into your brain intuitively.” – Nils