24th of August 2015

Helping Joe, Episode 29 Part 1


This week in Part 1 of Episode 29, Joe talks about 3 dates he went on, including the worst date he’s had in Austin and one that started poorly but ended wonderfully. Tucker and Nils talk to Joe about how to save a bad date, give him diet and sleep advice, and continue to dig into his emotional issues and how they relate to his dates.


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Joe’s Thoughts and Takeaways From This Episode:

Hey this is a running commentary of random thoughts, notes, and takeaways I had during or after this episode. – Joe

Beginning – I got gifts for Bishop’s birthday

Tucker makes fun of these and deservedly so. I think these were better gifts than the ones I gave Charlie in Episode 13.

4:00 – Sleep talk

As I date more women, I feel less connected to the Harry Potter tattoo girl I am dating. I want to see her less and sometimes just want to have sex with her and want her to leave.

I’m complaining about not getting sleep when we have sex and she sleeps over. I’m a really light sleeper and always wake up feeling crappy, less productive, in a fog the next day.

Nils points out that “sleep is the trade-off for your stated goal.” If I want to have sex with more women, I’m not going to optimal sleep or whatever.

It has nothing to do with her. I never get good sleep when I have sex and the woman stays over.

10:00 – Pay attention to what you do, not what you say or what you want to do

“Joe wants to cripple himself and then beat himself up… Your pattern in life is to unintentionally or intentionally cripple yourself and then beat yourself up because your’e not accomplishing enough being crippled. I’m going to go by your actions and those are your actions.” – Tucker

He’s right. I don’t feel like I purposefully or intentionally hamstring myself but there’s a lot of evidence just in this podcast series alone of how I fuck myself (with my room, the girl from improv, delayed text messages, and more) and then I get down on myself and beat myself up.

I don’t know why I do this and I hate to admit that I’m doing it, but he’s right it’s a pattern or habit.

11:00 – My poverty chili

Tucker asks, “Where do you not cripple yourself?”
I responded with taking care of my body and eating right.

They disagreed and talked about my “poverty chili”. They make fun of how I eat. This was pretty fucking funny but I still think it’s okay to eat poverty chili.

“Your food was a coction of the grossest smelling things on earth… carried them around town… ITS CALLED POVERTY CHILI” – Tucker

“That’s how you feed cattle. Your’e a human being.” – Nils

I tell them I eat great food when I go out on dates.

“So you’re only worthy of treating yourself well in the presence of a woman.” – Nils

Again this was something I thought I was though I wasn’t crippling myself, and I still don’t. It’s good food but cooked like I live in a soup kitchen. But they think this is ridiculous.

“You don’t give yourself the opportunity to grow and flourish the way that you could and it’s your own mindset that does it. And you’re like, ‘it is what it is.’ But it’s not. It’s something you can change.”

15:00 – Waking up early doesn’t matter if you get 9 hours of sleep

They talk about why it doesn’t matter if I get up early. I don’t know why I feel like it matters to wake up early, but like I’ve said in past episodes (Episode 17 I think), I get more done when I wake up early and get a good start on the day. I know it doesn’t make sense but I just have better days when I go to bed early and wake up early.

17:00 – Worst date I’ve been on since I got to Austin

Went to Vino Vino with this girl from Tinder. For whatever reason, she was just did not want to be on this date and we talk about this here.

“Nobody’s watching you… nobody’s paying attention to you.” -Nils

I thought by suffering through this date with someone who was kind of being a jerk (looking at your phone under the table when someone is talking to you), I thought I had to be nice & polite even though she wasn’t being polite.

I catastrophized and thought that if I got up and just left, which is what I wanted to do, that the people who worked there would look at me like I’m a piece of shit or my reputation there would be somehow worsened there by me leaving this girl just sitting there.

I assumed that they would think bad of me when they might not actually even care. Maybe this has happened before there and they just don’t give a shit. Or maybe because I’m the regular and I regularly enjoy myself there and enjoy the people I’m with, maybe they would have looked at her like ‘what’s wrong with this chick that made this dude leave’ maybe they can also see her texting under the table. I don’t know. I don’t know at all, but I assumed that they would think that I was an asshole for just leaving.

“Just ask her ‘Hey do you have somewhere to be? If you want to be somewhere else you can go.’ Why can’t you ask her a question? … You can say it in a very nice way, but also make it clear that you know what she’s doing… Either she gets up and leaves or re-engages, either way you’re better off. Both have happened to me on dates… For most people this is weird to do that… That’s how most people are, totally afraid to call out the elephant in the room. Most people will not do that.” – Tucker

“And the 3rd option is to just pay the bill, get up, and leave.” – Nils

Yea they’re right right. I don’t know why I didn’t do any of these. I just sat there and tried to make the best of it even though it was clearly not going anywhere.

“It’s not being an asshole to demand basic respect on a date… if she’s disengaged, you have every right to try to get her to engage, and if she won’t it’s okay to leave.” – Tucker

21:00 – Demanding basic respect from other people.

I don’t stand up for myself or call people out when they are not treating me with basic respect.

“[By enduring it,] you are hoping for things to change and it never happens because people don’t change unless you give them a reason to change. By being silent, you are telling them that what they are doing is permissible.” – Nils

Tucker talks about how in those situations, I need to use Nils, Charlie, or himself as a model for how to behave or how to respond, ask myself “What would Tucker do?” And this is a great piece of advice I think. None of them would have just sat there and tolerated that behavior.

“Your words like ‘endure’ and ‘get through’ are defeatist. There is no light at the end of that tunnel. That’s not how you want to spend the next 50 years or 50 days or 15 minutes… this woman is taking 15 minutes of your time. You either make something of it or cut your losses. If not, you will double down on the self-loathing.”
– Nils

Yea most of the time I do look at life or work or dates like, I just have to get through A to get to B, and I miss out on enjoying the process or appreciating the journey or having as much fun as I could have. And that sucks.

“At the very least, make sure she stops stealing your time.” – Tucker

27:00 – It’s not you. It’s her.

“Most guys [in that situation] would have thought that it was their fault. Your’e trying to change the subject as if what you’re talking about is the reason she’s on her phone. You have nothing to do with why she’s acting like that. The problem is all her. So you have to go at her [to solve it].” – Nils

“If you’re in a situation and you cannot connect the dots between how you got to where you are and her reaction to you, it is almost always something to do with her and not something to do with you.” – Nils

“Or she thought you were someone else on Tinder and created a fantasy about you that wasn’t you. Still not your fault.” – Tucker

She might have been a little crazy… asked me at one point seriously “Are you a believer?”

31:00 – A different date where I kind of turned it around

I went salsa dancing and she was exactly like me in how self-critical she was and being a perfectionist but instead she verbalized it so her monkey fight was outside of her head. She was saying similar things that I would say to myself and after about 15 minutes it got really annoying.

Tucker & Nils laugh at this and say we’re perfect for each other.

After salsa we go get burgers. I didn’t really explain here how she was being “henpecking” but she was argumentative and not a bitch but just like a little sister who won’t stop being annoying or shut the fuck up about something.

And again I was just going to endure it and get through this until I saw the tomatoes and decided to put them in her purse and told her stop stealing them.

“It sounded like she had low blood sugar… I can not tell you the number of women I have met who when they have low blood sugar turn into nonhuman beings.” – Nils

And that’s how I felt. I like was wtf is wrong with this person. And I guess she was just starving.

They keep making fun of me because 3-5 different times I talked about her behaviors and they were damn near exact thing that I had done in this podcast or ineffective behaviors that I have, things that I don’t like about myself, etc.

36:00 – “Someone reflects the worst parts about you back to yourself and you hate them?”

I emphatically answered “yes” here, and they said that we can just end the podcast here. It was a joke that I didn’t get.

“You have found the female mirror image of yourself and you [hate her].” – Nils

Yea that’s kind of fucked up I guess. I don’t really know what that means about me that I feel this way about another person who shares similar annoying or ineffective behaviors. Maybe it means I hate myself a lot more than unconsciously than I previously thought.

Going forward… having sex with her was great, but I’m not sure if I like spending “non-erect time” with her yet. I will go out with her again, next time after she eats, and see how it goes. There’s something there obviously, mutual attraction, we like each other, but she was so argumentative, always wanting to be right, always wanting her way, and just annoying. I could have dealt with the self-critical, perfectionist side of her when we were dancing and even later but she was just kind of a bitch. Nils said it was because she was hungry and didn’t eat all day. I don’t know. I’ll just have to see if she’s still like this in the future

40:00 – I ran into the improv girl I liked while on a date with the Harry Potter tattoo girl

So this is the improv girl from Episodes 18 & 23 where I sent the awful audio message and blew it with her. I later played it cool (was normal around her) and she came at me a few weeks later saying we should hang out. I texted her, she didn’t text back, maybe she’s just really flaky. I don’t know.

I saw her and had fun with her for a few minutes. She was super nice (she usually is) and friendly with the girl I was with. The guy she was with seemed nice but I don’t think she liked him that much. I don’t know though.

At this point I think I just want to be friends with the improv girl.

42:00 – Relationship with HP girl

I talk about being less into her as I date other women. I’ve seen her less and less and in general I’m just not as into her as I was before. I still like her a lot and like having sex with her, but I like dating new women more I think.

“You’ve started to see your mate value go up so now you’re dating a better league of women, and you don’t have time for the girl you settled for and that’s okay… Water will always find its level. You are water that hasn’t found its level yet.” – Tucker

Since we already had a conversation about this a month ago, Tucker says that there’s not much I can do. She’s an adult and if she feels bad that we don’t hang out as much, she can talk to me about it. I can’t guess it for her and break up with her. That’s ridiculous, would be more paternalistic.

They give some good advice here about how to end it if it comes to that, but right now there’s no real reason for any decision to be made. I still like seeing her. She still likes seeing me. We’re just doing it less than we used to.

45:00 – I don’t want her to stay over and I feel like a douchebag.

“How would an adult conversation about this look like?” – Tucker

I take a shot at this, and it’s a little too harsh, not thoughtful.

“You have to be more open [about the not sleeping problem].” – Nils

Nils gives a great example of how to do this where I can make the problem about me (because it is about me) instead about her staying overnight. Frame it in a way that it’s my problem and I can’t have her stay overnight because of it, and it will go a lot better than just saying “hey I feel like shit when you stay over.” Yea it’s situations like these, conversations like these (among many reasons) that I’m glad I have them and the podcast for this because I would have totally fucked this up on my own.

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