8th of June 2015

Helping Joe, Episode 19


On this episode of Helping Joe, Joe talks about his improv show and dives deeper into why he has trouble taking genuine compliments from others. He gives the guys updates on the girl he likes from improv (It didn’t go well) and the girl he has been dating and having sex with (This was better). Charlie Hoehn and Tucker Max give Joe advice on how to recover and get a girl interested in you again, how to last longer in bed, and how to have the medium-term / casual relationship talk.


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Joe’s Thoughts and Takeaways From This Episode:

Hey this is a running commentary of random thoughts, notes, and takeaways I had during or after this episode. – Joe


  • How to meditate correctly
  • Accepting compliments and internalizing positive feedback
  • Update from the girl that Joe left sent his awful audio message to
  • How to “get her back” and interested in you again
  • Update with girl Joe dating and having sex [problems] with (dick updates)
  • Strategies for lasting longer in bed
  • How to have a talk with her about long-term thing

@Beginning – How to mediate correctly

[We talk about my homeless shelter room in the next episode]

1. Really focus on your breath.
This gives you something to focus on and let your unconscious thoughts come up.

2. Recognize & accept those thoughts and emotions

3. Investigate or examine them.
This is where I get stuck or have difficulty. I just get lost in my thoughts.

Tucker admits this is actually pretty hard to do and shares a story about a time he meditated and cried over the death of his dog.

“I thought I had that out but I didn’t have it out. Meditation is all the things that need to come up that you are pushing down or hiding from or not thinking about.” They also come up in your dreams. It helps to remember these.

@3:30 – Talking about my improv show

We talked about this in the last 10 minutes of Episode 18, Part 2

Before the show (which went great!), here’s what I did:
-I did what Tucker said and meditated about how I was feeling, the worst case scenario, what I would do if it played out.
-I called my mom and talked to her. I usually call her once a week. This was mother’s day.
-I got a fresh haircut, which always puts me in a good mood because I look clean, look better.
-I talked with the hair dresser, just bullshiting, nothing substantial but just talking with another person about random things.

I used a tennis ball metaphor here to talk about having good conversations. My mom gave me this advice once and it was pretty good. Just hit the ball back.

This was all a great warmup before the show. On this Q&A about first dates, Nils mentioned how when he has a big meeting he stops and talks with every person he interacts with from getting coffee all the way to the office. This was kind of similar to what I did here.

Charlie went and got some videos, which I was so glad he did. I did the first scene and the last scene of our 30 minute show, and it went great. We did a solid warmup before the show and I felt confident going in there. I really didn’t care that much and just thought about being obvious and tried to make jokes where I could.

After the show, it was kind of sad when I realized that a lot of people like 3-5 didn’t have anyone come see them and one dude was self-depricating and said, “yep I’m a loner” and I thought … fuck a lot of people (like me) are loners or lonely or afraid and that sucks when you have something important and nobody to come see it or share it with. I only had one person: Charlie! And I’m really glad he went.

There were a few other people I could have pushed or asked earlier or guilted into going but I didn’t … Probably because I was nervous or afraid of looking like an idiot at the show or letting them know I cared. I’m not that confident about this so I probably just didn’t want anyone to come see it.

“Joe got some of the biggest laughs of the night.” – Charlie
Yea I think he was right. I had a great night. And I was surprised by some of the things I said that they really laughed at, but some stuff I knew would work and I was just on.

I did great and Charlie brought up that I almost didn’t take this level 2 class (Episode 13) because I didn’t think that I was good enough. This is crazy but I got some of the biggest laughs in our student showcase and did really well.

@8:30 – The improv girl

We talked about this at the end of the last episode.

I give an update on the situation with her.

@10:00 – Accepting compliments and positive feedback about myself

80% of the people who talked about the show said I was great and that the scene I did with the bear was great. 5-6 people in my class gave me compliments about it.

And I still took it apart with things like “I just had a good night” or “I was lucky with the scenes I got” or “I was just on” or “I had good people around me” instead of taking it and internalizing it and being like “Thank you for the compliment. Yea that was me. I killed it. I’m fucking good at this.”

“[This] is not humility. This is rationalizing away things that you can be proud of.”
– Tucker

Charlie recommends doing the 5 Minute Journal ABOUT MYSELF, recognizing & appreciating the good things about me.

Don’t say BUT or put tags on compliments because it immediately discounts everything in front, what they just said.

“Humility from greatness is rewarded. You’re not great at improv, but you just did a good job… You’re not great. You don’t’ have to have false humility or deflection.”
– Tucker

His point was to appreciate that, be confident about it, instead of sounding like Lebron James after a basketball game.

@18:00 – Why I disbelieve compliments people give me

I talk about times when I was a kid and had problems with girls or making friends at school and my dad would give me nice compliments to make me feel better but in the face of the reality those compliments were bullshit. He really didn’t help me get better. He just talked about these great things about me and was overly nice when the reality was that I sucked and needed help.

Tucker helped me put this in perspective and why this was fucked up and awful advice or help:

“You’re right that was a bullshit answer. If a 14 year old comes to you and says he’s having problems not making friends, that’s a serious problem. Social isolation is one of the most stressful situations a male teenager can be in. People act like it’s not a big deal, but it’s a HUGE deal.” – Tucker

What a good parent would have done, recognize the reality (I’m having trouble at school. I’m not popular. Whatever) and how to fix that.

“Even if they are wrong by not recognizing how great a guy you are, you have to live in that reality where they don’t recognize you. His answer is a dismissal of that reality.” – Tucker

When this happens enough times, people give you bullshit compliments, at a young age, it gets programmed in your head that they are wrong. Well, this sucks because now I walk around ignoring or disqualifying compliments.

I’m treating other people like my parents who gave me bullshit compliments. It’s like a reflex. In the past I couldn’t trust compliments they gave me because they were wrong or full of shit, but it’s different now. Unfortunately I’m still stuck in this bad pattern.

“What you need to see right now in your life [is that you have all these friends and are dating lots of women].” In 4-5 months, I’ve made a ton of fucking progress and am a world away from when I first got here. “Just look around.” That’s the reality and it’s okay to recognize that and feel great about it instead of disqualifying it.

To think about: Look at and ACCEPT THE EVIDENCE and the reality in front of you (people laughing at your jokes, friends you can call) instead of disqualifying it.

@28:00 – You can’t fake laughter

Tucker talks about how you can’t fake laugher and they come up with a funny skit idea of me just being funny on stage and turning to the audience and yelling, “That’s not funny. Stop laughing!”

@31:30 – Back to the improv girl and what happened with her

So right after Helping Joe she audio messaged me back and said Yes! But it was 5 days later after the weekend was over. I ignored that and thought, ok we’re on…

I saw her at the show that night and said “Hey let’s go dancing salsa or mini golf” Okay! With friend early Thursday, maybe Tuesday. Ok cool

Rest of night was fine, hanging out, and talking. She gave me a few nice compliments about the show, she thought I did really well.

Next day = improv class

I didn’t really get a chance to talk to her 1 on 1 until after class and said, “What’s up? Yea you free Tuesday/Thursday night?”

She replied, “So about this week … I can’t.”

I waited a second or two for her to suggest another day or time or to say “but I still want to go out,” but she didn’t. She left it hanging, like she was saying “I can’t … EVER” (implied). She didn’t say, “I still want to go out sometime!” … she just said “I can’t.”

So I just said “that’s ok” like it didn’t bother me or I didn’t care and that was it.

She’s just not into me. She’s given me multiple clues that she doesn’t want to go out. I’m not going to force it. At when girls are into me and at one point she was and now she’s not. I didn’t push her.

Tucker: “Just let it go. That’s the best thing you can do… That voicemail was a huge turn-off.”

But even before that audio message I think she was giving me clues she didn’t like me, blowing me off when I texted her, etc.

How I felt about this:

1. Annoyed that she wasn’t honest.

But I understand why she wasn’t honest. She didn’t want to totally reject me because she probably thinks I’m going to blow up or be a dick like other guys in the past have been to her.

2. Sad, frustrated, disappointed.

I blew it again with a girl I had fun with and liked. Just tired of fucking up, making stupid mistakes, tip-toeing around people or around girls and missing opportunities and living with regret.

But at least I’m in the game.

At least I’m in the arena and making mistakes where as before I just wasn’t doing much to meet and talk with women. They say I’m crippling myself, and I did that again here and I thought well at least I have somewhere to bring myself down from. Before I was just at 0.

What I can do now in this situation and in future classes or interaction with her: Play it cool, keep being awesome around her, and don’t pursue her. Be friends, engage her non-sexually, be cool, etc.

The worst case scenario = Nothing happens.
Ok case = we’re friends and she probably has cool friends.
The best case scenario = She wants to date me.

@38:00 – Update with girl I am dating and having sex [problems] with

Talked with her about what she likes sexually, that was cool

I was able to get hard and really didn’t do anything that different. Just had a few drinks before which I think helped.

BUT I’m still coming too quick or quicker than I would like.

@42:00 – Strategies for lasting longer in bed

Charlie’s advice was to think about coming to quickly and to embrace that thought. “Yes I’m going to cum in 2 seconds.”

“You can’t say don’t think of the elephant because it makes you think of the elephant.”

This doesn’t make any sense. Won’t that make me come quickly too? I don’t want to do this either.

Tucker’s advice is to use the start, stop method to control orgasm and is more pleasurable for the woman (win-win!). Also we just did a Q&A on premature ejaculation. “Make it like a game. The way I got good at sex was understanding how to alternate rhythm and [change it up].”

This sounds easy and something I can do. I will do this.

The position can also matter a lot too. Find one where you have more control.

Pull out and put your pinkie or index finger in and her vagina will contract / constrict around your pinkie or a minute. His point was the vagina changes sizes (god damn baby has to go through there) and it will wrap around your finger then when you put your dick back in you feel huge to her and she’ll love it.

2 glasses of wine will put the monkeys to sleep in your head

@51:00 – How to have a talk with her about medium-term relationship

I think she likes me a lot more than I like her and I want to pump the breaks a little bit and talk with her about where she’s at, what she wants, etc. so that there’s no fucked up expectations and she doesn’t get hurt later.

I still want to date other people, explore more women, and don’t want to have an exclusive relationship with one person.

It’s only been 2 months but we’ve been seeing each other pretty regularly so I feel like this talk might be needed. Also, Nils said something about “lying by omission” which means lying by not having a conversation and she just thinks we’re in a relationship. I want to avoid this because I don’t want to be a jerk.

Charlie’s advice:

-“The frequency of communication and seeing each other or hanging out sets the tone for where this is going.”
-Start by asking her how does she feel thing are going: “Where do you think things are going? How are you feeling?”
-“I really like you and what we have now. Where do you see this going? What do you want?” (Keep it broad, let her show her cards first)
-“I want to explore this relationship more but in this same context.”

Unless you talk about being committed, the assumption is that she has no hold on you, you have no hold on her. If she brings it up explicitly and asks you, then talk to her about it.

Let her know that you see her as more than just a casual thing, but you’re not ready to move forward in any serious way. She’s not a short-term thing.

“We barely know each other. I just moved here. Relationships are hard for me. I really like you and what we have now.”

So many good reasons to do this: Both come out of this discussion on more solid ground. Both know where you stand with each other and feel better. She’ll feel safer. You’ll have more respect for yourself. It will increase my sexual confidence because I won’t have any guilt.

I felt like she might be mad if I was wasting her time. Like she wanted a boyfriend and that’s what she thought she was in for by dating me, but I don’t want to be anyone’s boyfriend. Also I’d feel guilty about wasting any woman’s time if she was in her 20s and wanted something serious (but I wasn’t going to be that guy) because those are prime child-bearing years of her life and if she’s looking for a long-term partner like that I want to be clear that that is not me so she can go date someone else who is ready for a commitment to her and so she doesn’t waste time.
“If she wants a boyfriend right now, she’s unreasonable. 2 months is unreasonable to expect that from somebody. And I don’t think she does.”

Most guys avoid this because it’s uncomfortable. I doubt I would do this if I hadn’t listened to the podcast.

“You should come out of this feeling proud about yourself.” – Tucker

Haha, too be honest, now I feel really nervous going in. I should meditate about this what’s the worst case scenario?

“Nervous going in, proud coming out.”

When Tucker was playing out scripts or language I could use in this conversation he tagged it with “yet” like “not ready to move forward in any serious way, yet.”

To be honest that’s not how I feel and I wouldn’t feel right tagging it with “yet” because I don’t want to leave open the door to a possible long-term or exclusive relationship or lead her on because that’s not what I want. I feel like I’m not ready to move forward seriously in the foreseeable future.

Make a joke out of it (this is a great idea from Tucker): “This is the point where the guy thinks he’s supposed to say he wants to sleep with other people. I’m not trying to say that. I like what we have and I want to keep doing this. Let’s get to know each other and see what happens.” This was great!

“I bet you she’s having the same conversation with her girlfriends, ‘It’s his right [to fuck other girls] but I don’t want to know about it. We’re not at that point where I can make that claim on him.”

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